Kind of Interesting, Kind of Eye-Opening

[W. Deranged]

Just remembered this hand I played last night. I was very pleased with how I played it, and was interested to see what villain was doing. I'd be interested to hear what people think villain has.

Villain is loose, and a little bit more aggressive than average, but nowhere close to a maniac. I think he was like 25/8/1.8 or something.

The game is Party 5/10. This is kind of made up, but the idea is right.

I open behind one fold with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif. Villain cold-calls and we take the flop "just the two of us."

Flop (5+ SB): 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

I bet and villain calls.

Turn (3.5 BB): A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

I bet, villain raises, I call.

River (7.5 BB): 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, villain raises, I call.

Seems that 7-7 is the only reasonable hand that he could have.

Would a 25/8 call 2 cold with 7-7 in middle pos?

[Dagger78]

25/8 would be calling with weaker aces and most pairs in this spot. No idea what he has, but I think the play is right. I hate getting raised on the river but bet/call is the right play there.

Hmmm...

It looks like a set, but that's too boring a hand given your intro.

I am going to guess 45s, and he sucked out on you.

Why not check/call river? You miss a bet if he has a small pair, but you also give him a chance to bluff AND you could definitely be behind here.

-Andrew

i like your play up until the river. i think a check/call would be good there.

[Dagger78]

If he rivered 2-pair it's A3s not 43s. I doubt a 25/8 would cold call with 43s.

[Gert505]

I would put him on AQ or AJ suited. Pocket 7's are a toss up. I am not sure if he would cold call with a small pocket pair. That would depend on how loose or tight you have played at this table.

If you 3-bet the turn and he caps, then you can assume that you are beat and c/f the river UI.

Well, for the record I guessed 45s (improving to a straight), not 34s. Not that it really matters.

I know it is an unlikely cold-calling hand, but I thought it might fit Deranged's description of the "eye-opening" and "interesting" hand. A loose player makes these strange calls sometimes.

-Andrew

[krimson]

AQ, AJ, ATs, 77, A3

25% doesn't seem that loose to me, i'm not so sure he's cold calling here with A3, but would be a good reason for him to play it like this.

[thejameser]

a tricky guy with AA(i don't know the position, ep this is less likely), probably 77 or A7s/A5s.

[Dagger78]

Good point, Even seemingly decent players do strange things sometimes.

[alul]

I doubt 25/8 calling EP raise with A5. A pocket pair is more probable. 55? Turn raise could be a semibluff.

[Shillx]

If the villian is any good, he isn't going to have a pair of aces when he raises the turn. If you have a big underpair, all the raise is going to do is make you fold. If you have AK, the raise just loses him more money. He could have flopped a set, made aces up or be on a stone bluff here. If the villian sucks postflop (which is probably the case), he will raise a pair of aces everytime on 4th street.

So if the guy is good, you should just shutdown and let him bluff his money away if that is what he has. By doing anything else you just lose more money when he has a hand, and you get him to fold when he is bluffing with KQ or whatever. Against a bad postflop player I would play it straight up and 3-bet here.

Brad

[Azhrarn]

This is a common situation at Party 5/10, and something I've struggled with: loose players who coldcall and are tricky enough to make your life miserable post-flop with their superior position. (And from what I've seen, this situation just gets more common in higher limits.)

A cold-calling range for this guy: any ace, any pocket pair, suited connectors and one-gappers, 2 broadway cards. Maybe too large for only a 25 vpip, but those are the types of hands I typically see coldcall. Maybe big pocke pairs occasionally.

Flop: Standard. Some coldcallers will play fit-or-fold on the flop, but those aren't the tricky ones. I don't expect to see a fold too often on a raggedy board like this. Small and medium pocket pairs that didn't trip up will usually raise here, and overcards will some of the time.

Turn: Standard. I'll only 3-bet this against the most aggressive opponents. Some handreading: A set. Ace two pair (although some opponents would raise their pair on the flop. The board seems too raggedy for other two pairs.) Ace with a worse kicker (although some opponents would not raise with that. Probably depends somewhat on the kicker.) A bluff that's representing an ace (whiffed overcards and 65 come to mind as being likely candidates. Maybe a pocket pair if he didn't raise it on the flop.) He's probably not loose enough to play 53, so a straight is out.

River: I would c/c. I want to see a showdown against this guy, so I do like the call. Hand reading: A set will pop you again, as will the various ace two pairs. 65 just made a straight and will raise you. Aces with worse kickers will probably just call. A bluff may raise you again or may fold or call. However, all of those except for the bluffs should bet again on the river (and the bluffs will fire again some of the time.) So I don't think you're gaining anything by betting the river unless he's bluffing or misrepresenting his hand a large portion of the time (and will raise or call with his bluffs most of the time instead of folding them.)

[ReptileHouse]

Most of the time when I see a line like that, I get shown aces up. Those times I don't, I usually get shown a set, probably 77 in this case.

I check/call the river. WA/WB, imo.

[W. Deranged]

Hey guys... I realized as I posted this that I got the action totally wrong, and that, in fact, the A hit on the river. I think the hand as posted is interesting in its own right and I appreciate the discussion.

I'm going to make a new post with the corrected action, for interest's sake.

Given this action, I prefer check-call on the river as well.