Heads up post flop with TT [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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10-06-2005, 01:04 PM

howdy,
Reads: BB would defend with pretty much any 2 cards.
UTG is sLAG, from the 30 or so hands i've seen, prolly not worth much.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 5 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (10.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.70 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has 8d 8c (two pair, eights and fours).
Hero has Ts Tc (two pair, tens and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.70 BB.

gharp

10-06-2005, 01:08 PM

Nice hand.

Link774

10-06-2005, 01:11 PM

Looks fine to me. You'd need a more specific read to bet the river. Maybe bet/fold if villan is passive

DCWildcat

10-06-2005, 01:13 PM

yummy

Aaron W.

10-06-2005, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
howdy,
Reads: BB would defend with pretty much any 2 cards.
UTG is sLAG, from the 30 or so hands i've seen, prolly not worth much.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 5 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (10.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

He check-raise-bluffed the ace to try to make you lay down a hand like KK-99. Since you called, he figures you for a hand, but he's still going to pay you off on the river.

Felipe

10-06-2005, 02:29 PM

aaron's saying bet the river.
I'm saying *note: bluff c/r a turned Ace* (i'm still working on value betting rivers...see my TT post)

10-06-2005, 02:38 PM

That makes sense, i'm just trying to figure out how to determine it on the spot. My first thought on the turn was that he might have the Ace (he seems capable of open raising AK-AJ from UTG), but I thought it more likely that he'd know what that c/r would look like, so he was on a medium pair (that was my inital read on the flop).

I thought though that this might be a situation where I wouldn't get called if I bet the river unless he had the Ace, so I didn't think a value bet would work.

You seem pretty confident from his line he c/r bluffed. how'd you come to that conclusion? Thanks.

Aaron W.

10-06-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You seem pretty confident from his line he c/r bluffed. how'd you come to that conclusion? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confident that he doesn't have an ace when he checks the river. Most aces will bet that and hope to get called by worse hands. Only rarely will you find someone check-raise the turn and check the river with a weak ace (and even more rarely will you find someone double check-raise with the ace on the turn and the river).

MrWookie47

10-06-2005, 02:43 PM

Yeah. I'm still not sure if I'd have the stones to call this down in the first place, but if I did, about the only hand that would "sensibly" double check/raise would be AA. I think we can bet/fold the river.

10-06-2005, 02:44 PM

Cool. One other quick question: I realize I still am behind to KK-JJ, but once we're heads up on the flop, he'd almost certainly 3bet the flop with those hands, right?

Aaron W.

10-06-2005, 03:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. I'm still not sure if I'd have the stones to call this down in the first place, but if I did, about the only hand that would "sensibly" double check/raise would be AA. I think we can bet/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn call is really the key to this hand, and it can go either way.

Based on the (weak) read from Hero and since villain raised UTG but did not cap, I'm inclined to think that he doesn't have a high pocket pair or a huge ace. You still might bump into AJ-AT and lose. I would have put him on some sort of /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif semibluff (like KQs-KTs or maybe even QJs). In any case, the river check is extremely odd no matter what hand villain holds when he check-raises. I would expect to be bet into on the river almost all the time.

My earlier statement was a little too strong, so I want to correct that:

[ QUOTE ]
Since you called, he figures you for a hand, but he's still going to pay you off on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

He might have check-raised with a pure bluff and not called on the river because he has given up on the hand. But most players who are willing to check-raise bluff the turn will bet the river, too.

imported_CaseClosed326

10-06-2005, 04:01 PM

I would have said nice hand...

But I think A. W. is right saying you should bet the river. He is much smarter than I, so you should trust him.

aK13

10-06-2005, 04:20 PM

Definitely value bet / fold the river.

tor

10-06-2005, 04:59 PM

Value bet that river. Since he's LAG the A bluff is very plausible, and the checkd river all but cements it. Value bet this river.

AngelicPenguin

10-06-2005, 07:15 PM

We need to be right > 15% of the time or so? Vs complete unknowns I have been folding this, as my default label for a player is loose passive and passive players don't raise the turn on a bluff. With your (slight) read, I probably call it a bit more. Maybe this is selective memory, but I feel like when I decide to look them up, I'm usually beat.

I think the river is an easy bet though; no one with an A is going to check the river if they had the nerve to raise the turn.

Edit: and don't post results /images/graemlins/smile.gif "Clear bluff" you can hear everyone say from reading them.