Babcock / Isiah

[Pudge714]

Similarly to the Martz Tice thread are Rob Babcock and Isiah Thomas trying to see who can be a worse GM. In this offseason they have made three of the worst moves in recent memory.

1. Babcock drafting Villaneuva
2. Isiah not using the Allan Houston rule for Allan Houston
3. Isiah trading so much for Eddy Curry even though he has a heart condidtion and may never play another NBA game.

[brettbrettr]

FWIW I read that Isaih wasn't allowed to release Houston b/c of Houston's relationship with the Dolans. He's certainly horrible, but I'm not sure the fault for this one falls squarely at his feet.

[xadrez]

How did Isiah trade "so much"? He gave up a solid, yet undersized role player with no upside in Sweetney, en expiring contract, and 1 first rounder. How is this too much. If anything, Paxson should be worried that Curry heart is fine, since he got so little for a potential impact player.

Isiah is gambling that is undeniable. But what he gave up is the issue here.

[xadrez]

This is true. Dolan has a man-crush on Allan Houston.

[IndieMatty]

Isiah > Layden

Babcocks Villenueva pick was probably the worst draft pick since Frederick Weiss.

[xadrez]

Dont forget that last year, with the same pick, Babcock took Rafael Araujo . WTF! At least Villanueva has some potential.

Edit:fixed

[Pudge714]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont forget that last year, with the same pick, Babcock took Ronny Turiaff. WTF! At least Villanueva has some potential.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rafael Arajou, Turiaf got drafted in the second round this year by the Lakers.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Isiah > Layden

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this is relevant since Layden used to have the job, but being better than Layden isn't really all that impressive. EG, IndieMatty >>>>> Layden. My cat, Fredo > Layden. You get the point...

[xadrez]

Fixed that...my analysis still applies

[ QUOTE ]
How did Isiah trade "so much"? He gave up a solid, yet undersized role player with no upside in Sweetney, en expiring contract, and 1 first rounder. How is this too much. If anything, Paxson should be worried that Curry heart is fine, since he got so little for a potential impact player.

Isiah is gambling that is undeniable. But what he gave up is the issue here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. Legitimate centers who can play are a rarity in the eastern conference. He got one who is 22 years old, with a few years in the league already, not only without giving up a front line player but getting rid of the unplayable Tim Thomas. Sure Curry has warts, but it's not unreasonable to think that Larry Brown can correct many of them and that the player is young enough to still be able to mature. And with regard to the medical issues -- Curry had to pass a physical before the trade would be official.

This trade by itself isnt that bad for the Knicks, although Isiah obviously is takin a big risk. The biggest problem with this trade is that it hurts New Yorks already horrible cap situation. In 2007 Lebron becomes a free agent and you can be sure that his sponsors will want him in New York, and that he will want to be in New York because he will get paid even more by his sponsors. In the NBA, a team can not sign a free agent from another team if they are over the cap, except for the mid-level exemption. Therefore the Knicks, who were already in a monster hole as it was are now even worse off, plus they traded their only bit of cap relief- Tim Thomas.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore the Knicks, who were already in a monster hole as it was are now even worse off, plus they traded their only bit of cap relief- Tim Thomas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, they got back Antonio Davis, who makes about as much, and comes off the books this year. So does Penny.

I think this Curry signing might put them over the cap in 2007 though.

the trade overall hurt their cap immensely because thomas contract>davis contract plus they got curry. Even if they hadnt done the trade they would still have had trouble clearing enough room for 07, now they have no chance.

[Brad22]

Isiah is definitely a complete idiot of a GM. The Marbury trade was good work. He should have stopped after that.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
The Marbury trade was good work.

[/ QUOTE ]
Marbury sucks.

[Brad22]

Marbury does not suck at all, here is the deal:

-He probably has issues, which has led to a number of trades over his career.
-He is definitely not a pure PG, but puts up great numbers for the position regardless.
-Questionable leadership skills



Larry Brown usually gets the most from players, and it'll be interesting to see how he is used this year.

[morello]

Uh, what?

He gave up scraps for Curry. Tim Thomas is suddenly "so much"? Are you kidding me?

I know everyone loves to bash Isiah, but he has increased the talent of his club greatly. And brought in Larry Brown..who is regarded as one of the best coaches in the league.

As posted in the Curry thread:

then
PG Ward
PG Eisley
PG FWilliams
SG Houston
SF Anderson
SF KVH
PF Weatherspoon
PF Harrington
PF Sweetney
PF McDyess
PF/C KThomas
C DMutombo
C MDoleac

now:
PG Marbury
PG NRobinson
PG/SG JCrawford
SG Hardaway
SG Houston
G/F QRichardson
G/F Ariza
F Lee
PF Rose
PF/C CFrye
PF ADavis
PF MoTaylor
C JJames
C ECurry

You're telling me that isn't a significant improvement?


btw, Babcock is terrible. It's one thing to draft Arajuo 8th overall, ahead of Igoudala and other quality players. And sure, Charlie V was probably drafted 15 spots too early..but the worst thing Babcock did was sit on his hands and let Donyell Marshall play out his contract last year when teams were willing to give us SOMETHING for him. Picks, cash, prospects, whatever. And oh yeah, he traded Vince Carter for a bucket of fried chicken.

[Zurvan]

[ QUOTE ]
And oh yeah, he traded Vince Carter for a bucket of fried chicken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad he didn't get chicken. At least that's useful.

[Pudge714]

At the time I didn't think the Vince trade was particularly bad because I figured the draft picks would be useful. Unfortunately I neglected the fact that Babcock is a completely incompetent drafter.