a couple of hands....

[brettbrettr]

So I'm trying to suck less at NLHE. These from last night...

Live 1/2

I have A6s in the SB, about $200 behind. 3 limpers, I complete, BB checks.

Flop: T96 rainbow, checked around

Turn: A.

I bet 10, folded to button (asian kid, sat down about 20m mins ago, no reads) raises to $25 (he has abouit $200 too).

I think a bit and call.

River is a blank, I check and call $25

__________________________________________________ ___

6 handed, my image ain't great. I've been involved in the last 4 pots. I won the 2 small ones, got out of the way in another after raising pre-flop and getting called from the blinds, and tried to get another guy to lay down what I thought was second pair in another--he didn't have second pair and he was going nowhere

Anyhoo, so, like I said, my image is pretty lag now, even though I've played tight all night.

I have AhQc UTG, I make it $10. ($350 or so)

Folded to SB (weak tight player, doens't get out of line, like the rest of these yokels doesn't bet his hands well either...) who calls. (He has about $175 or so). BB folds.

Flop: 2h4h5s.

He checks, I bet $20, he thinks a bit and calls.

Turn is the 9h.

He checks, I think and check.

River: As. He bets $20, I call.

[brettbrettr]

you fellas mind? thanks in advance...

[wdeadwyler]

Hand 1: I like

Hand 2: I like

[amoeba]

I find nothing wrong with either hand.

opponent specific info might make me think differently but for the most part I love both hands.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
opponent specific info might make me think differently but for the most part I love both hands

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I was ok with how both played out, but in hand 1, if he'd have bet more on the river I was going to have a hard time calling there. I mean, he checked the flop on the button and raised the turn. Of course he could have limped with a big ace, but I think I'm going to be staring at a set here pretty often.

In hand 2, I was wondering about both the turn and river play. After he called the flop I figured him for a mid PP, maybe a big ace. I don't think he'd call the flop with any old overs, but my image sort of sucked so he might. The turn seemed like a fairly standard check with outs situation (the ace, queen, any heart) and its a check I make in limit all the time. A limit playing friend of mine asked about the viability of betting the turn here, and I didn't have an answer for him.

As for the river, I'm not sure if I'm missing value in spots like this. I do a lot of calling on rivers where I can't stand a reraise, too much maybe.

[centja1]

that turn, in the second hand, is a turn i would love to bet. If he had some thought as to whether to call the flop, then there's quite a big chance that the combination of fold equity and actual pot equity on the turn justifies another bet.

with the nut flush draw, a gutshot straight drawn and possibly even two overcards that might be outs, you have a lot of stake in this pot and this guy may not have enough hand to call with three hearts on board and be waiting to see if the flush card scared you too.

I think that before checking in a situation like this, you have to decide what size bet you're going to call should one of your non-flush outs hit at the river.

If, as in this hand, you're going to call 1/3 pot bet on just top pair, then I think you have to bet at least half the pot on the turn when checked to. If you're going to fold to a bet when you don't make a flush, then checking is nice here.

I guess my point here is don't underestimate the percentage of times that you have the best hand on the turn and he is in there with a dominated A drawing to his gutshot+overcards.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
If, as in this hand, you're going to call 1/3 pot bet on just top pair, then I think you have to bet at least half the pot on the turn when checked to

[/ QUOTE ]

This is interesting and something I don't completely understand. While on the one hand, I think I did have a deecent amount of FE here, I also thought there was a reasonable chance I was behind here. I mean, after all, this was a weak tight player who called out of the SB and called a pot size bet on the flop. I'd hate to be check-raised and forced to fold.

Thing about calling the 1/3 pot bet is that by keeping the pot small on the turn I that's not a whole lot of chips. If I'd bet the turn, and he'd called, I don't know what, if anything, I could call on that river.

[centja1]

yes, it would be terrible to get check raised on the turn and get blown off the hand, but for basically the same amount of money that you are going to call on the river, you get to give him an opportunity to make a big mistake in a large pot.

it's the combined chance that you may improve and he may fold that makes this a good bet, in my view. if he has something like A2 in this situation, he would be very hard pressed to call the turn, even though he called the flop with a pair, a gutshot plus an overcard.

there are a few situations, especially in no limit, where allowing your opponent to see the river, even when you have outs, is more harm than good. even if he calls your turn bet, he probably won't bet into you on the end unless he makes a very strong hand. If you don't improve, you can check behind. If you do improve, you can decide whether you want to value bet.

remember, weak-tight players love to fold. give him an opportunity to do so.

[brettbrettr]

So you think if I bet I should bet about $20? That seems like an awfully small bet to me. And it would certainly be out of character. If I were to bet this turn--on a bluff, with the nuts--I'd bet at least $40, and prob more like $60.

[centja1]

no, betting 1/3 of the pot is worse than not betting at all. you need to make whatever your standard bet is. Probably not a full pot, but definitely at least 1/2 the pot. I'd probably be really happy betting $40 here.

he'll have somewhere around $100 on top of this, so you're essentially betting $40 to his $140. since you're not putting any more money in the pot unless you improve, but you have position and put his money in for him if you do.

it's very difficult for him to call here without a straight or flush, in my opinion.