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View Full Version : Party 55, calling down with AK


bennies
10-06-2005, 08:53 AM
1st hand of tourney, all comments are appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
MP3 (t1000)
CO (t1000)
Button (t1000)
SB (t1000)
Hero (t1000)
UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls t15, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t75) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t95</font>, MP1 folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls t55.

Turn: (t265) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t200</font>, Hero calls t200.

River: (t665) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t690 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t690 (All-In).

Final Pot: t2045

EricW
10-06-2005, 09:07 AM
you must lead out on the turn.

bennies
10-06-2005, 09:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
you must lead out on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

to make a flush draw pay? Or?

EricW
10-06-2005, 09:17 AM
Well, to make a flush pay AND find out where you're at. By checking, if he's on a flush draw, you're giving him a free card and also by checking, you have no clue where you're at. The only thing that sucks about this hand is that it's unraised preflop which means there could be a lot of junk out there (ie a set)so it's really dangerous. However, I can't see you wishing for a more favorable turn situation where the flush draw isn't complete.

bennies
10-06-2005, 09:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Well, to make a flush pay AND find out where you're at.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I should bet on the turn and fold to a raise? This seems a bit weak to me.

mlagoo
10-06-2005, 09:31 AM
the tough thing about this is, if you had put in a raise preflop, you could probably eliminate 33 from his range. on the other hand, i hate raising PF with AK here and building a big pot out of position.

i don't think i'm ever folding here, and I think it's possible that you induced a worse hand to bluff you, so I like it. i'd just be pissed that he felt the need to put it allin on the river.

fnord_too
10-06-2005, 09:39 AM
Pop this pre flop with that many people in. Now way you want to be hitting a 5 way flop with a one pair type hand. Also, picking up the 75 in the pot already is not insignificant.

Edit - wow, I'm the only one who said fold at some point. This hand is trouble: a one pair hand OOP against someone who popped your bet with two people left having not acted. KQ is certainly possible, but so is 33. I really have a hard time putting villain on a hand here, but you are in a position to lose the most when behind and win the least when ahead. I think your best line is reraising the flop and folding to any further significant action, but that really is two of your choices combined.

aaronk56
10-06-2005, 09:51 AM
Raise to 100 pre-flop even OP. Bet the flop, 2/3's of the pot. Swear loudly when he raises and you fold.

fnord_too
10-06-2005, 10:23 AM
I've been thinking about this some more. First hand, getting there how you did, calling down isn't that bad. But I hate not raising preflop, and I hate calling down with one pair when 5 people saw the flop. But, there are only 3 ways for 33, 1 way for KK, 1 way for 77, and 6 ways for AA. Contrast that to 8 ways for KQ, 8 ways for KJ, 6 ways for AK (one of which you absolutely hate and 2 you only hate on the flop), lots of ways for two clubs and random pocket pairs. Meh, raise pre flop and make your life easier.

bennies
10-06-2005, 11:50 AM
Thank you and all of the above for your thoughts. I'll wait some more before posting results.

About the preflop check, I raise here sometimes too. It is hard to find the right raise amount though, worst case scenario we get one caller and see a flop oop with an unmade hand and an already sizeable pot. Then what? Check/fold? Bet/fold? FPS check/push?

Well, don't answer that, luckily it's not always worst case scenario...

10-06-2005, 12:08 PM
I generally don't mind getting my money in with TPTK at a 55. Your line isnt terrible. Sometimes I'm going to make it 150 out of the BB with AK then lead the flop for at least half the pot even if u miss. If i hit my top pair and am only against one opponent I may get tricky with it and attempt to somehow be deceptive (like check the flop and bet the turn and river)

bigt439
10-06-2005, 12:37 PM
If you pot the flop and he makes a similarily sized raise you'll be in real nice shape to c/r the turn all-in. As it stand I bet the turn and have no problem getting allin.

Dr_Jeckyl_00
10-06-2005, 12:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Pop this pre flop with that many people in. Now way you want to be hitting a 5 way flop with a one pair type hand. Also, picking up the 75 in the pot already is not insignificant.

Edit - wow, I'm the only one who said fold at some point. This hand is trouble: a one pair hand OOP against someone who popped your bet with two people left having not acted. KQ is certainly possible, but so is 33. I really have a hard time putting villain on a hand here, but you are in a position to lose the most when behind and win the least when ahead. I think your best line is reraising the flop and folding to any further significant action, but that really is two of your choices combined.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a leak of mine is not being able to fold tptk here. But I would bet aggressively flop-rvr b/c I fear the flush. Villain might also fear a flush and OP's actions suggest that he is chasing. Villain having 2 pair or a set is certainly a possibility,as well as top pair...

downtown
10-06-2005, 01:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
raise pre flop and make your life easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really know where you're at on the flop... I might repop it and lay down to a push... but villains range is so large, I don't really know where we're at.

10-06-2005, 01:24 PM
I agree its a touchy situation being in the BB with so many limpers, but i raise to 50 here preflop. I think on the 55s, people understand that is a 3+XBB raise. on the 33s, they routinely raise to 100 on the 10/15 with crap. Hopefully this is not lost at the 55s, havent played there in a while.

If you raise this preflop OOP like this, I think you take this pot down on the flop with another raise. If you dont, then you might be worried about a set...but, the 7 on the turn wouldnt be nearly as scary in my mind, because hopefully the preflop raise will have weeded out the weak/suited connectors that limped into the pot. Without the preflop raise, you really dont have much clarity in this hand and ended up pushing. again, i would think a preflop raise allows you to take down the pot on the flop and more confidently bet the turn.

10-06-2005, 02:13 PM
Not raising preflop is just terrible.

Ogre
10-06-2005, 05:07 PM
i raise pf
reraise the flop
bet out or c/r the turn
get all my chips in on the river

i think he has 33

bennies
10-06-2005, 06:55 PM
villain had KQ