3/6 beatable?? Turn action [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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silkyslim

10-05-2005, 06:30 PM

I was rivered 4 times in a row before this hand, I was a bit skiddish, should I raise turn? villain is a fish loose passive

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
7 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.16 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10.16 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Jh 6s (one pair, queens).
Hero has As Ad (full house, aces full of queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.16 BB.

peterchi

10-05-2005, 06:37 PM

I think it's fine. Stop-and-go from a passive player on a paired board means trips often enough that a call-down line seems like the best plan hooray run-on sentence.

alul

10-05-2005, 06:45 PM

Is it a joke? He called you with WHAT? I guess after this hand he's on top of your buddy list.

silkyslim

10-05-2005, 06:49 PM

no joke, he said he wanted to see what i had because I raised so much. i didnt make fun of him at all, which is +EV

B Dids

10-05-2005, 06:56 PM

Y'all are acting like the near nut no pair isn't a good hand.

alul

10-05-2005, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt make fun of him at all, which is +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

NH

Answering your question, I don't think you should raise the turn. If he is bluffing, he will fold (he can even fold a K sometimes which you don't want), if he has a Q you will be 3-bet (which you don't want either). I guess I call the turn and river unimproved.

Greg J

10-05-2005, 07:01 PM

I thought you played the hand okay.

Then I took a look at the results. Sometimes I think perhaps we read too much into reads. Loose passive? I don't doubt your read at all, but I really think this is illustrative of how sometimes players we have solid reads on do totally unexpected and randomly stupid stuff. We've all seen it: some clown decides his J high is good enough to go to town with. They suddenly get a wild hair up thier ass.

Harv72b

10-05-2005, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
villain is a fish loose passive

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that what looks like a passive player (0.7 AF or some such) is often very aggressive when that's coupled with a very high VPIP. I really wish one of the math gurus on here would work out some sort of quick reference scale for quick comparisons...I suppose use VPIP 20/AF 2.5 as a base. That'd really be helpful.

I think you played the hand well, although with a loose/aggressive read it'd be worth raising the turn with. Against a somewhat sane opponent the turn raise only sets you up to be 3-bet by a K/JT, or get him to fold whatever lesser hand he's bluffing at you with.

silkyslim

10-05-2005, 07:20 PM

It happened again, no reads until now, different playr

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.16 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9d Jd (three of a kind, nines).
BB has 7s Th (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.16 BB.

alul

10-05-2005, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Remember that what looks like a passive player (0.7 AF or some such) is often very aggressive when that's coupled with a very high VPIP. I really wish one of the math gurus on here would work out some sort of quick reference scale for quick comparisons...I suppose use VPIP 20/AF 2.5 as a base. That'd really be helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should put this in a separate thread. It's really interesting.

alul

10-05-2005, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It happened again

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif
You should start selling nicknames.

silkyslim

10-05-2005, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought you played the hand okay.

Then I took a look at the results. Sometimes I think perhaps we read too much into reads. Loose passive? I don't doubt your read at all, but I really think this is illustrative of how sometimes players we have solid reads on do totally unexpected and randomly stupid stuff. We've all seen it: some clown decides his J high is good enough to go to town with. They suddenly get a wild hair up thier ass.

[/ QUOTE ]
He was loose passive, he told me he got fed up with me raising pf all the time. i guess he goes on tilt and becomes the hulk

hobbsmann

10-05-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It happened again, no reads until now, different playr

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.16 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9d Jd (three of a kind, nines).
BB has 7s Th (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.16 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little eary to be opening J9s unless the table has been unusually tight IMO.

silkyslim

10-05-2005, 07:29 PM

When should I open raise? I would normally limp but not open limp so I raised.

alul

10-05-2005, 07:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a little eary to be opening J9s unless the table has been unusually tight IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that's Ok when you are running hot and the table is a bit intimidated. Most of the time in MP1 it should be folded though (IMO).

hobbsmann

10-05-2005, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When should I open raise? I would normally limp but not open limp so I raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is boarderline in MP1 and needs favorable conditions. I would open with this in the HJ most of the time and everyday all day in CO.

peterchi

10-05-2005, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When should I open raise? I would normally limp but not open limp so I raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
With this hand I would probably wait until MP3 to open-raise. Probably fold it in MP1. I don't think limping is horrible though; your hand has decent multi-way strength.

peterchi

10-05-2005, 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I guess that's Ok when you are running hot and the table is a bit intimidated.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if I agree with the first part of this statement. When you've been running hot, that implies that you've been raising pre-flop A LOT. I feel like this is when you tend to get 3-bet -- when someone gets sick of it.

Regardless of whether or not you have been showing down big hands, if you have a string of pre-flop raising hands someone is likely to fight back after a while with something as mediocre as AJ/KJ, which obviously would suck a lot here.

10-05-2005, 08:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no joke, he said he wanted to see what i had because I raised so much. i didnt make fun of him at all, which is +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe brilliant

Greg J

10-05-2005, 10:19 PM

Isn't there a new modified aggression score that takes this into account in the newer versions of PokerAce HUD? I'm not sure what the formula is.

IMO: A base of 20 vp and 2.0 agg would be more intuitive.