PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands [Archive]

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Dazarath

10-05-2005, 06:15 PM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.33 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (12.33 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero folds?

Final Pot: 14.33 BB

Dazarath

10-05-2005, 06:22 PM

Similar hand. These are the kinds of situations where I call too much on the river. Do people think these calls are +EV or -EV?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

BarronVangorToth

10-05-2005, 06:23 PM

Any stats on the players...?

That first hand is one ugly board, though.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Dazarath

10-05-2005, 06:31 PM

1st hand: UTG+2 is unknown and button was tight/passive over a very small sample of hands (~40)
2nd hand: SB is 47/7.7/1.09 and I think BB was unknown.

mscags

10-05-2005, 07:28 PM

I usually call this down. Is that a leak? I think people will bluff at these boards often enough to warrant calling down.

10-05-2005, 08:32 PM

1st hand - in the heat of the battle i probably overcall, though folding might be correct. everything got there. i feel like it's a very close decision and so i err on the side of calling in pots of this size. the psychological effect of folding and then seeing that you had the best hand must be considered here.

2nd hand - i think a river call is much clearer here, b/c you almost surely have the bb beat and the sb could be betting a weaker ace. i think raising the turn on hand 2 has merit, also.

Dominic

10-05-2005, 08:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.33 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (12.33 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero folds?

Final Pot: 14.33 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was HU on the river, this is an easy call. But the button is both a tight, conservative player, AND calling a river bet on that board, right? I think you can safely fold this hand and feel good about it.

MCS

10-05-2005, 10:43 PM

On hand 2, what is your range for BB's hand after the flop bet? I assume you are planning to fold the turn unimproved.

arod15

10-05-2005, 10:59 PM

right fold.

Dazarath

10-06-2005, 08:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On hand 2, what is your range for BB's hand after the flop bet? I assume you are planning to fold the turn unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess was a 9 or maybe a 6 or 77-88. Basically some pair that he wouldn't lay down even though the A killed it. His lack of a turn raise tells me that he doesn't have two pair/trips/straight. And yes, I was folding the turn UI.

elindauer

10-06-2005, 08:59 AM

Painful fold but it looks good to me on this super scare card. In your 2nd hand, definitely call. Your decent kicker may be good enough to beat some hands SB will value bet.

good luck.
Eric

MNpoker

10-19-2005, 04:51 PM

Hand #1) Fold

Hand #2) Am I the only one who raises the flop here?