A A.

[kongo_totte]

Just sat down. Villian is completely unknown.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 ($187)
MP2 ($305.72)
MP3 ($226.25)
CO ($184)
Hero ($197)
SB ($176.60)
BB ($155.90)
UTG ($30)
UTG+1 ($160.70)
UTG+2 ($244.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, SB (poster) calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($16) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $11</font>, Hero calls $11.

Turn: ($38) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $27</font>, Hero calls $27.

River: ($92) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, SB check-raises all in for $90 more.

1) Do you bet the river.
2) Do you call the check-raise?

[JeanieJ]

Why not raise the flop or turn?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise the flop or turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

The board is pretty safe on flop, figured I was way ahead or way behind and wanted to keep him fighting my "steal".

[guaranteedBluff]

First off, I raise this flop to $40 - get some information while its still cheap!

1) check behind
2) not sure about the river... You are getting good odds but I don't see him making this move with just an overpair... (KK or QQ) --- so I suppose I lay it down reluctantly.

[Hattifnatt]

River bet looks good, clear fold to the CR though.

[wdeadwyler]

There are only 3 hands I see him playing this way, the first one is something like A5s, where he leads into your "missed overcards" prices himself in on the turn, makes his flush and decides c/r river.

Secondly, he might have flopped a set, and is going for the sexy, even if he has no idea what that is.

Lastly, he has JJ and spikes his set on the river.

I value bet the river, and in the heat of the moment, call the c/r but in hindsight, I really can't see him c/r anything you beat here. Maybe qq?? But why?? This whole hand reeks of "but why". I cant think of a hand that you are beating that "should" take this line, but I can definately see a donk doing this with his made hand. I vote river fold, and I also like the value bet.

FYI if I call this flop bet I am raising the turn, if he calls my turn raise I strongly consider checking behind.

[Malachii]

Flop is okay. The possible OESD might make this a raise, but calling is alright. River bet is okay, but you must fold to the checkraise.

[Riposte]

Love your posts kongo... I always learn something.

I like your play. I wouldn't raise the flop or turn either. It's clearly a WA/WB scenario (ok maybe maybe he has a straight draw).

On the river, I think you have to fold. He's just showing way too much strength. But you always surprise me with your analyses so I could be wrong.

[xorbie]

Check behind on the river.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]


On the river, I think you have to fold. He's just showing way too much strength. But you always surprise me with your analyses so I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not wrong, you are very right. The river is a standard fold IMO. Unfortunaly, I suck at poker and called.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Check behind on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't see much that beats me checking that river. Or I should say, I think I am ahead more than 50% if called. To me, it looks like he is trying to induce a bluff here, and will call with pretty marginal holdings. As long as I have the brains to make the obvious fold to a check-raise, I think the bet is fine.

[xorbie]

Do you really think he puts you on bluffing high cards? He might be trying to get a bluff, this is true. The only draw on the flop hit on the turn, and the only added draw on the turn hit on the river. What can he possibly be inducing a bluff *from*? If he does have some middleish pair like 77 or 78 then I think you'd have to beat real small for him to even think about calling. The only hands you get any equity from are TT, QQ and KK, IMO. That's not to say there isn't room for a flop or turn raise. Just that as played, I check river.

[kongo_totte]

True, but the fact that he checked the river makes all those hands pretty probable. In my experience, people are not often inducing bluffs with monsters (even though they should). Basically, his river check looks very weak and I am pretty sure I am ahead, and I belive that me waking up on the river like that looks pretty weird and might make him call with very marginal holdings.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
True, but the fact that he checked the river makes all those hands pretty probable. In my experience, people are not often inducing bluffs with monsters (even though they should). Basically, his river check looks very weak and I am pretty sure I am ahead, and I belive that me waking up on the river like that looks pretty weird and might make him call with very marginal holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[punter11235]

Calling both flop and turn sucks.
I would raise somewhere.
Betting the river is standard imo and good play as is folding to final allin.

Best wishes

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise the flop or turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

The board is pretty safe on flop, figured I was way ahead or way behind and wanted to keep him fighting my "steal".

[/ QUOTE ]

Like your thinking. This does seem to be a WA/WB situation. I play this the same way you did, and folding the river.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling both flop and turn sucks.
I would raise somewhere.
Betting the river is standard imo and good play as is folding to final allin.

Best wishes

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like raising the flop for reasons I have mentioned. On the turn, to only possible draw got there, and him having a flush draw is unlikely. Still WA/WB and now a raise will be even more pot bloating. As played, I have no problems w/ calling a decent sized bet on river, which is about as expensive as raising the turn.

Honestly, what's the point in betting the river? A value bet seems to have little potential for success here with just an overpair.

Either he folds to the bet and you get just the pot or he's trapping and you've fallen for it. You raise preflop and he called it with something. My bet is a small pair or some sort of drawing hand that caught up to you.

IMO, the mistake was slowplaying a pair of overs on the flop. If you raise him there, you get the information you're wanting on the river.

[Hoopster81]

1) no
2) no

This is one spot where I like the min-raise. Min-raise the turn and hope for him to check it to you on the river.

Pardon the plug, but the last Card Player had an article on a very similar situation.

And it encouraged checking the river in this situation.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Pardon the plug, but the last Card Player had an article on a very similar situation.

And it encouraged checking the river in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who wrote it?

[amoeba]

check behind on the river.

what kind of hand bets 2 streets then check calls the river?

8T? 87? TT? theres no way he lead the flop and turn with a J.

the only 3 hands that make sense are TT, QQ, or KK and I think you see a reraise from KK preflop.

I think he has JJ.

[Malachii]

What are you hoping to accomplish with a minraise?

[wtfsvi]

I like raising the flop. There are a couple of OESDs out there (34 not likely obviously, but possible). But more importantly, I find you are often way ahead here, and you don't want a K or something to fall on the turn and ruin your action. When the straight completes on the turn, slowing down makes sense, and if the straight doesn't complete on the turn I think betting and folding to a check raise is cool. But yeah, I want to raise that flop.

I'm inclined to call if he 3bets the flop big to all-in after you raise. You don't often see sets played that fast on close to totally dry flops. If you see it now, take a note, but I really don't see it much.

As for the river, given how the hand is played, I honestly don't know. Fold is clear enough after he check raises, but I don't know about betting. You think he might be inducing a bluff, but there are no missed draws out there for you to have. And he's really not giving you much credit if he thinks you've been calling him on a pure pair draw. Also, stack size is super awkward for a river bet. Especially since you want it to look like a bluff, so I don't like less than half pot much. But if you bet like $70, you are pot committed. Sucks.

I went to find my copy of the magazine this morning and I can't find it. I'm trying to remember. I think the title was "Checking/Raising the River" or something like that.

[soah]

I raise the turn to $80 as a free showdown ploy. You put in the same amount of money either way, but this charges one pair to improve and redirects the pressure back at your opponent instead of to you. The only drawkback is that your opponent is unknown and may force you to lay down the best hand if it turns out he is manical or horrible.

[ QUOTE ]
To me, it looks like he is trying to induce a bluff here

[/ QUOTE ]

The first step to picking off a bluff is to name a hand which you can beat, which your opponent could logically hold given all of the action. You cannot hold any bluffing hands here because you called reasonable bets twice on a drawless flop. He must put you on a made hand. He is either checking because he cannot beat your made hand, or because he wants you to bet your made hand. A bet from you is inappropriate in both cases.

[Hoopster81]

Free showdown

[xcrack999]

Hey, you're back. Cool.

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I raise this flop to $40 - get some information while its still cheap!

1) check behind
2) not sure about the river... You are getting good odds but I don't see him making this move with just an overpair... (KK or QQ) --- so I suppose I lay it down reluctantly.

[/ QUOTE ]

read this month's article on 2+2 magazine regarding raising for information. unless hero has played enough with the villain and can accurately narrow villain's holdings when raising 20bb's on the flop then any raise that he makes should be for value instead. information should be a byproduct and not the purpose for the raise.

[wtfsvi]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
Hey, you're back. Cool.

[/ QUOTE ] Indeed. Welcome back soah.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Easy river check. I would raise a blank turn, but since 67 OESD just completed, I'm probably calling the turn and then calling something reasonable on the river but not something too big.

[ajmargarine]

I really don't mind the calls on the flop and turn. You only have a one pair hand. If SB is checking into you, you are betting something similar yourself. If SB bets into the PFR twice, at least on the turn bet he has to be aware that you maybe have a big pp, so a call is in order there no matter what the turn card was. Check behind the river is semi-manditory, IMO.

1) Possibly. At this point it looks like he has an overpair and just started wondering what you have here.
2) Yup. This almost can't be a bluff I think.

I'd put him on QdTd or KdQd here. He calls your button steal, donks a friendly flop, picks up the draw on the turn and keeps coming, gets there and check-raises knowing you must have some kind of hand. Or he has trips... or J8 if he's really awful. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh yeah: should have raised the turn IMO. He could easily have bet nothing on the flop and backed into a straight/flush draw. Happens to me all the time. Would you have flat-called if the flop were 2c 8d 9d?

[pokerjoker]

no i dotn bet river, and i fold to the CR. I cant think of anything that i beat here.