$55: QQ - Warning! Post flop play.

[Taraz]

Anybody play this any differently?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t1110)
CO (t730)
Button (t1120)
SB (t1780)
BB (t2065)
UTG (t960)
Hero (t930)
MP1 (t1305)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t90</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls t75, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t270) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t180</font>, SB calls t180, BB folds.

Turn: (t630) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t630) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t50</font>, Hero calls t50.

Final Pot: t730

[Karak567]

I am shoving the turn.

[Bonafone]

I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

[MegaBet]

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I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, unless I have a read that my opponent slowplays flopped trips. Then I would be VERY careful.

[downtown]

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I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I would just shove the turn. With Hero having approximately the amount of the pot behind, maybe you can get (unlikely) straight or flush draws to fold.

[pineapple888]

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I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

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Eh, I would just shove the turn. With Hero having approximately the amount of the pot behind, maybe you can get (unlikely) straight or flush draws to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? If you bet the pot on the turn, you'd be thrilled to have draws come along.

Unlike everyone else so far, I'm taking exactly the line OP did, unless I have a read that he's a total donk. The guy's flat-called me twice.

[Bonafone]

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I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

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Eh, I would just shove the turn. With Hero having approximately the amount of the pot behind, maybe you can get (unlikely) straight or flush draws to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

So by pushing you get the draws to fold and trips and some jacks to call. I don't like that.

[fnord_too]

That is exactly how I'd play it*. My flop bet would likely be 175 or 200 because I don't like to type numbers /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

*If I had a particular read on villain, like he would pay off with hands like 77 I may punish him more post flop, but your line is my standard.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
I am shoving the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate that unless you have reason to believe villain pays off way too much. You will always get called by better hands and worse hands/draws will almost always fold. You cannot really bet enough to make the draws get the wrong price since a c/r push makes you want to puke since the stacks will give villains push some weight.

[downtown]

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I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I would just shove the turn. With Hero having approximately the amount of the pot behind, maybe you can get (unlikely) straight or flush draws to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? If you bet the pot on the turn, you'd be thrilled to have draws come along.

Unlike everyone else so far, I'm taking exactly the line OP did, unless I have a read that he's a total donk. The guy's flat-called me twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, you're right, fold or pay.

[downtown]

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I would definately bet the turn. Depending on the opponent my bet would be anywhere from 250 to all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, I would just shove the turn. With Hero having approximately the amount of the pot behind, maybe you can get (unlikely) straight or flush draws to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

So by pushing you get the draws to fold and trips and some jacks to call. I don't like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I modified my statement, I would get the draws to fold if they were playing correctly. Otherwise I would get them to pay too much. FWIW I think I am paying off a T unless I have a strong read that this is a tricky player or one that slowplays. I don't see what the problem is with betting strong into this opponent who has now checked into us twice. I fear trips just about not at all (again barring a read). I fear a draw a little bit though, so I push.

[downtown]

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Unlike everyone else so far, I'm taking exactly the line OP did, unless I have a read that he's a total donk. The guy's flat-called me twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the difference for me here is that I tend to play the opposite way. I assume that a player is a donk unless she gives me a reason not to assume so. There are various reasons I might note a player as tricky or good. Maybe this is the wrong approach? But then again, I tend to only play during peak times, so it seems to have worked for me so far. I may start another thread about this...

[pineapple888]

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I fear trips just about not at all (again barring a read).

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Four other people saw the flop, don't you think it's at least possible that one of them had a 10? When everyone loves to play JT and T9, not to mention donkier hands like QT?

The problem is, a tight-weak post-flop player would take exactly villain's line with trips. He's not going to bet, but he's sure going to call. He doesn't have to be crafty, it's just the way he plays.

[DyessMan89]

Preflop and flop are standard. The meat of this post is on the turn, obviously. For those of you who are suggesting a pot on the turn, Im not so sure I agree. This seems to me like a WA/WB situation. I think if you pot it here, the only hand that is coming along is a T. I think if you check here, youll lose less money when the opposition has a T, and youll win more if he has a J (or small pair, w/e). He'll probobly fold a J to a pot bet on the turn. Yes, this is giving a free card for draws, but I dont put the opposition on a draw here. If he called on the flop with a runner runner flush draw, then Ill make love to him. The only draw I can see him having here is KQ, and that probobly would have re-raised pre-flop.

I like the way OP played this hand.

[downtown]

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I fear trips just about not at all (again barring a read).

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Four other people saw the flop, don't you think it's at least possible that one of them had a 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

2 other people saw the flop not 4....? It's certainly possible that one of them has a ten. I guess I am thinking that no 10 check/calls the flop, checks the turn, and bets t50 on the river though. I'm certainly guilty of looking at all the action first.

Assuming the turn check then, everyone who is taking the opposite line from me on the turn (which I don't mind) thinks a ten is betting... t50 on the river?

[Hendricks433]

I could see villian easily having a 10 here. Just cause its not how youd play doesnt mean its not how he would play it. Wouldnt the J bet or raise cause his hand isnt as sercure? I like the OP line here.

[pineapple888]

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I fear trips just about not at all (again barring a read).

[/ QUOTE ]

Four other people saw the flop, don't you think it's at least possible that one of them had a 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

2 other people saw the flop not 4....? It's certainly possible that one of them has a ten. I guess I am thinking that no 10 check/calls the flop, checks the turn, and bets t50 on the river though. I'm certainly guilty of looking at all the action first.

Assuming the turn check then, everyone who is taking the opposite line from me on the turn (which I don't mind) thinks a ten is betting... t50 on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, sorry, misread the HH.

Anyway, my point remains, this is how a tight/weak post-flop player bets (or doesn't). They hate to bet with big hands, but love to call. On the river, they'll reluctantly bet a small amount. It's actually a reasonable strategy against overaggressive players.

I've seen timid players bust a bunch of people this way, especially in multis.

Anyway, I'm just saying you can't rule it out.

[Colombo]

I'm not sure about the turn.

But the way you played it, why aren't you raising the river?

I'm sure everyone is going to jump on me and say that he'll only call with a 10 and not a hand that you beat, but seriously. The guy bet 50 into a pot of over 600, do you really think he has a 10? This bet seems like a weak jack. Raise it to 100-150, he'll call with a jack, and you also arent investing much if he has the 10.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about the turn.

But the way you played it, why aren't you raising the river?

I'm sure everyone is going to jump on me and say that he'll only call with a 10 and not a hand that you beat, but seriously. The guy bet 50 into a pot of over 600, do you really think he has a 10? This bet seems like a weak jack. Raise it to 100-150, he'll call with a jack, and you also arent investing much if he has the 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is kind of the reason that I posted the hand. I wanted to see if anybody would raise the river. Apparently my check on the turn was more debatable.

For some reason I was thinking that he wanted me to raise that weak bet so I just called. What amount do I raise to, can I call a reraise?

Villain's play to me screams a Jack and not a T. In my experience, a T bets much more than the minimum on the river after a turn check because he wants to make it look like a steal while at the same time getting a little more value. At least more than a $50 bet.

I like the OP's line. I'm not worried about a Ten at all here. If he has it, those are the breaks. But I'm not raising on the river, not even a min raise, to hedge my bets.

FWIW, I'm going to say he's got the Jack with a middle card.

[seaniswise]

i agree with the OP's line. there is no reason a 10 needs to raise here vs the preflop raiser. raising might freeze AA-QQ, AJ, and would probably fold AK, AQ. that being said, if you're the one with QQ, slowing down is very prudent. it keeps the pot small, and may induce a bluff or mistaken value bet by a J. i'm not sure whether the river bet is a weak lead setup, or just plain weak, but thank the internet this donkey can't see the scared look on your face and make the easy call.