Televised execution of criminals

[dtbog]

In a bold move, the TV network FOX decides to televise the execution (by electric chair) of a known terrorist who helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks.

Do you watch it?

edit: follow-up: they showed an execution in The Green Mile, but it was obviously an actor. is it different to you to watch a real person die?

[steelcmg]

[ QUOTE ]
In a bold move, the TV network FOX decides to televise the execution (by electric chair) of a known terrorist who helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks.

Do you watch it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell yea i wanna watch

[jakethebake]

Why not?

[Cancer Merchant]

No, because most likely it would be on Pay Per View. All proceeds go to Katarina victims!

[dtbog]

Just to explain the existence of this poll...

... my 10th grade history teacher asked this question of the class, and only one girl raised her hand.

As we discussed the matter out loud, it became clear that about half of the class actually would have been interested in watching it, but didn't want to raise their hand in public for fear of looking like a sadist.

I spoke to this girl on the phone today, and I was reminded of the incident.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
No, because most likely it would be on Pay Per View. All proceeds go to Katarina victims!

[/ QUOTE ]

vat eez dis Katarina you speak of?

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

I wouldn't watch it for the same reason I don't watch NASCAR racing -- I simply wouldn't have any interest in seeing it.

[Hal 2000]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to explain the existence of this poll...

... my 10th grade history teacher asked this question of the class, and only one girl raised her hand.

As we discussed the matter out loud, it became clear that about half of the class actually would have been interested in watching it, but didn't want to raise their hand in public for fear of looking like a sadist.

I spoke to this girl on the phone today, and I was reminded of the incident.

[/ QUOTE ]

This girl sounds like fun. YSSCSIIHP

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

I wouldn't watch it for the same reason I don't watch NASCAR racing -- I simply wouldn't have any interest in seeing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it would be far more interesting than Nascar.

[MrTrik]

No I don't. But if ya drop 'em into a closed ring with hungry tigers I might watch.

[[censored]]

I can think of far worse things on T.V now where as I would consider having public executions to be beneficial.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]

anything would be far more interesting than Nascar.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
I would consider having public executions to be beneficial.

[/ QUOTE ]

As another level of negative reinforcement, you mean?

In the case of something like 9/11, I don't see anything wrong with televising an execution. This guy 'executed' thousands of people, and the media televised that for the better part of the last four years.

Tit for tat.

[dcasper70]

I don't want to see anyone die

except NASCAR

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would consider having public executions to be beneficial.

[/ QUOTE ]

As another level of negative reinforcement, you mean?

In the case of something like 9/11, I don't see anything wrong with televising an execution. This guy 'executed' thousands of people, and the media televised that for the better part of the last four years.

Tit for tat.

[/ QUOTE ]

It may also be psychologically beneficial for the families of victims to see.

edit:....or not.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]

It may also be psychologically beneficial for the families of victims to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, really?

I think that'd just be catering to vindictiveness, which isn't exactly a good thing IMO.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It may also be psychologically beneficial for the families of victims to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, really?

I think that'd just be catering to vindictiveness, which isn't exactly a good thing IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they have a right to feel vindictive in this case, but I was thinking more of some kind of closure for them.

[dcasper70]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It may also be psychologically beneficial for the families of victims to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, really?

I think that'd just be catering to vindictiveness, which isn't exactly a good thing IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they have a right to feel vindictive in this case, but I was thinking more of some kind of closure for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

does closure need to mean vengeance? (serious question)

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
does closure need to mean vengeance? (serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

For me I think it would. I don't feel that vengeance is a bad thing though in general.

[samjjones]

If "Rome" or some kind of sporting event is on, I watch that instead.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
For me I think it would. I don't feel that vengeance is a bad thing though in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, I don't either -- but the government sets an awfully strange precedent by catering to the vengeance of certain parties.

what happens when someone rapes your daughter, he gets out of prison in 15 years, and you kill him? Someone messed with Bob, and he got to watch the perp die on national TV. Someone messed with you, and you had to take matters into your own hands?

see what I mean?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For me I think it would. I don't feel that vengeance is a bad thing though in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, I don't either -- but the government sets an awfully strange precedent by catering to the vengeance of certain parties.

what happens when someone rapes your daughter, he gets out of prison in 15 years, and you kill him? Someone messed with Bob, and he got to watch the perp die on national TV. Someone messed with you, and you had to take matters into your own hands?

see what I mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it's good for society in general, but I'd have no moral qualms about killing someone that raped my daughter.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you watch it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. What else is on?

I might watch it. But if there was something else on, like a really good episode of MASH, or maybe a Daniel Baldwin movie, or Win Ben Stein's Money, I'd probably watch that instead.

[dcasper70]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying it's good for society in general, but I'd have no moral qualms about killing someone that raped my daughter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have no problem with them being put to death, but I'd prefer a lifetime of suffering.

And I'd certainly get no joy in watching them die.

[unlucky513]

does anyone remember nick berg?? (i think that was his name)

he was the american that was beheaded by terrorists, and they taped and then televised it on al jazeera.. anyway, i saw the video - most brutal, gruesome thing i've ever seen. i felt sick to my stomach the next few days.

i never want to watch another person die again.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would consider having public executions to be beneficial.

[/ QUOTE ]

As another level of negative reinforcement, you mean?

In the case of something like 9/11, I don't see anything wrong with televising an execution. This guy 'executed' thousands of people, and the media televised that for the better part of the last four years.

Tit for tat.

[/ QUOTE ]

There could be some crime prevention benefits but mostly I meant that I think having the entire judicial process from start to finish open to the public eye is a good thing.

Whereas most of the stuff on MTV for instances has no value and is a bad thing.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does closure need to mean vengeance? (serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

For me I think it would. I don't feel that vengeance is a bad thing though in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly I'm always baffled why people try to make revenge out to be such a bad thing. IMO revenge is one of the things that makes society possible.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]

Exactly I'm always baffled why people try to make revenge out to be such a bad thing. IMO revenge is one of the things that makes society possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I don't think it's a bad thing at all; I just don't think the government should encourage it.

[jakethebake]

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I'm not saying it's good for society in general, but I'd have no moral qualms about killing someone that raped my daughter.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact, the only thing that might possibly prevent me from doing this would be that my family would lose me. Otherwise, I can say it would be a certainty.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does closure need to mean vengeance? (serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

For me I think it would. I don't feel that vengeance is a bad thing though in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly I'm always baffled why people try to make revenge out to be such a bad thing. IMO revenge is one of the things that makes society possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's interesting. How would you define revenge and how does it make society possible? I can't really think of examples so maybe I'm misunderstanding you...

[dtbog]

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I'm not saying it's good for society in general, but I'd have no moral qualms about killing someone that raped my daughter.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact, the only thing that might possibly prevent me from doing this would be that my family would lose me. Otherwise, I can say it would be a certainty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely... again, though, I don't necessarily want the government authorizing this. Think of how quickly we'd be killing each other for.. oh, I don't know, <font color="white">hitting a two-outer </font> stealing a loaf of bread.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
edit: follow-up: they showed an execution in The Green Mile, but it was obviously an actor. is it different to you to watch a real person die?

[/ QUOTE ]

What in the hell kind of a question is that? Is there any doubt as to the answer to this? Wouldn't anyone who answered "no," in essense, be a sociopath? Possibly a full-blown psychopath?

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Do you watch it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. What else is on?

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I started to laugh, then realized, if say the Bears were playing on another channel, I'd be watching that.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would consider having public executions to be beneficial.

[/ QUOTE ]

As another level of negative reinforcement, you mean?

In the case of something like 9/11, I don't see anything wrong with televising an execution. This guy 'executed' thousands of people, and the media televised that for the better part of the last four years.

Tit for tat.

[/ QUOTE ]

There could be some crime prevention benefits but mostly I meant that I think having the entire judicial process from start to finish open to the public eye is a good thing.

Whereas most of the stuff on MTV for instances has no value and is a bad thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

If 'everyday' (ie. not 9/11 terrorists) executions were televised, I would suspect that that you would see support for capital punishment start to slide. The spectacle of watching the state kill someone would horrify a good number of people. This would be especially true if the person being put to death is a woman (especially a young white woman), is mentally handicapped, is especially young, or where there is doubt as to the guilt of the person being executed.

[Mason Hellmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
As another level of negative reinforcement, you mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this term means what you think.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
What in the hell kind of a question is that? Is there any doubt as to the answer to this? Wouldn't anyone who answered "no," in essense, be a sociopath? Possibly a full-blown psychopath?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there are two components to an execution:

1) The physical events that are happening -- electric current is passed through a person's body until he is dead. This is inevitably accompanied by convulsions, freakish images, etc.

2) The taking of a real person's life.

A scene in a movie removes the second aspect from consideration... so the question about the actor separates the two aspects of the execution.

Also, 9/11 is a bad example, but some of the criminals on TV are so far removed from most of our lives that they would just seem like movie characters to many viewers -- and not in a sociopathic way.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As another level of negative reinforcement, you mean?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this term means what you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably misused it, I'm doing a few things at once.

I meant to suggest that a televised execution would provide a clear example of why it is bad to kill and rape people... and thereby discourage them from doing it.

You're right -- negative reinforcement would be something like slapping someone every time he swore, or something like that. My bad.

[phage]

I have enough issues with death/dying. I don't think I could watch

[dtbog]

Look at this. exactly 50/50 at the moment.. 29/29.

That's pretty interesting.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Exactly I'm always baffled why people try to make revenge out to be such a bad thing. IMO revenge is one of the things that makes society possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I don't think it's a bad thing at all; I just don't think the government should encourage it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consider government to "the government" but rather just another tool of society so that would be like saying society shouldn't encourage society. If you don't think it is a bad thing, then why shouldn't we encourage it on some level?

I'll state right now for example I fully support criminal punishment for strictly vindictive purposes.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll state right now for example I fully support criminal punishment for strictly vindictive purposes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It can and should be done within the law. If the law won't take care of it, then I will. But I definitely think the law should provide for it.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
does closure need to mean vengeance? (serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

For me I think it would. I don't feel that vengeance is a bad thing though in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly I'm always baffled why people try to make revenge out to be such a bad thing. IMO revenge is one of the things that makes society possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's interesting. How would you define revenge and how does it make society possible? I can't really think of examples so maybe I'm misunderstanding you...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most people act in accordance to the golden rule and I think this desire to be treated kidnly has as much to do with how people behave towards one another than the fear of criminal punishment or even a desire to just be kind.

If you take away the stick ie revenge, you take away the carrot as well, thus leaving society with only the protections provided by law.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, 9/11 is a bad example, but some of the criminals on TV are so far removed from most of our lives that they would just seem like movie characters to many viewers -- and not in a sociopathic way.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not something to simply be stated as the way it is and left there. This is a serious problem with society in general. The inability to distinguish reality from make-believe is a problem. I understand that things are confused today. We watch TV news as entertainment, and it doesn't seem real. We watch reality TV which is about as real as Fantasia, but they call it "reality." People identify with their favorite TV characters as if they were friends. Society has come to accept this, and I can't do anything about it. Fine.

But, if we can't differentiate between a REAL PERSON dying and a character in a piece of fiction in any medium dying to the point where one will cause a different emotion than the other, we have serious problems.

I'm not a college boy, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong or using the term incorrectly, but I don't see how the perception of the death of a real person being the same as the perception of the death of a TV character as anything but sociopathic.

[sexdrugsmoney]

Do I watch it? Yes, purely for psychological and sociological reasons.

Do I think society should ever start televising executions? No. (especially given the example of a "terrorist" - why create and feed "bloodlust" I say?)

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll state right now for example I fully support criminal punishment for strictly vindictive purposes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It can and should be done within the law. If the law won't take care of it, then I will. But I definitely think the law should provide for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right again this goes into my revenge is necessary for society to function. People are going to seek revenge, period it is in our nature as much as love is. If the law does not provide a structured tool for society to accomplish this and does not satisfy this desire within reason, then people will start to seek revenge on their own resulting in anarchy. This is why the Death Penalty is important IMO. People need to be satisfied that some criminals atleast have the chance of being killed, otherwise they will start to do it themselves resulting in more deaths, more anguish, destroyed families, etc.

[dtbog]

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I don't see how the perception of the death of a real person being the same as the perception of the death of a TV character as anything but sociopathic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately you disproved your own point -- a sociopath by definition is 'antisocial' and therefore in discord with his society.

I agree that it's awful, but it's the unfortunate norm these days... thereby being anything but sociopathic.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I'm torn on capital punishment. On the one hand I see no reason to allow certain criminals, undoubtedly guilty and completely unrehabilitative, to live. On the other hand, in the simplest terms possible, I don't want to give the state the right to murder me.

General I support the idea in principle but not in practice. In this country (USA) capital punishment is not meted out fairly to the deserving. If it were I'd consider it differently I suppose, but I don't see things getting better anytime soon.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm torn on capital punishment. On the one hand I see no reason to allow certain criminals, undoubtedly guilty and completely unrehabilitative, to live. On the other hand, in the simplest terms possible, I don't want to give the state the right to murder me.

General I support the idea in principle but not in practice. In this country (USA) capital punishment is not meted out fairly to the deserving. If it were I'd consider it differently I suppose, but I don't see things getting better anytime soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you fix the practice, the part being done wrong, not [censored] up the part that's already right.

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how the perception of the death of a real person being the same as the perception of the death of a TV character as anything but sociopathic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately you disproved your own point -- a sociopath by definition is 'antisocial' and therefore in discord with his society.

I agree that it's awful, but it's the unfortunate norm these days... thereby being anything but sociopathic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying that it's normal, that people feel that way? I thought it was a question before.

Do you really feel that the average person watching an execution of a real person would feel no more emotion than one watching the execution of a television character? Because I don't feel that way, and I don't think people generally feel that way. I don't think it's gotten that bad yet. Look at the Nick Berg thing, or any of the footage of 9/11 - most people were deeply disturbed by that, much more so than when someone shot JR or whatever.

Then again, maybe you're right, I'm naive and I need to get out more often (or not, actually.)

[imported_The Vibesman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm torn on capital punishment. On the one hand I see no reason to allow certain criminals, undoubtedly guilty and completely unrehabilitative, to live. On the other hand, in the simplest terms possible, I don't want to give the state the right to murder me.

General I support the idea in principle but not in practice. In this country (USA) capital punishment is not meted out fairly to the deserving. If it were I'd consider it differently I suppose, but I don't see things getting better anytime soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you fix the practice, the part being done wrong, not [censored] up the part that's already right.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I would like to see done. But I do think there's more being done wrong in this area than is being done right. But as I said, I see no reason to allow certain criminals, undoubtedly guilty and completely unrehabilitative, to live.

[Shajen]

pretty much everyone I know watched the video of the guy being beheaded.

I think the answer is pretty much everyone would.

A lot of people would have issues with it, but I mean, this ain't Janet Jackson's tit we're talking about, this is good old-fashioned violence.

[dcasper70]

good thread

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I meant to suggest that a televised execution would provide a clear example of why it is bad to kill and rape people... and thereby discourage them from doing it.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's the theory, but I remember learning in a criminology class that this isn't the case. In general, the people who commit murders do so in the heat of the moment and aren't considering the long-term consequences of their actions. Also, like most criminals while committing crimes, they don't think that they'll get caught.

Oh, and then you'll have the lunatics who will kill simply to get on Fox's "Prime Time Executions". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the answer is pretty much everyone would.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly would only watch it if I were with a group of people that had a desparate desire to do so.

Don't get me wrong -- I have nothing against it, and I wouldn't be worried about being scarred by the image -- but it just doesn't interest me to watch. I know what's going to happen.

[dcasper70]

[ QUOTE ]
pretty much everyone I know watched the video of the guy being beheaded.

I think the answer is pretty much everyone would.


[/ QUOTE ]

Doubtful. I'd guess you'd get a Nielsen rating of around 70 for the first two or three, then it would drop to single digits. No one would care about watching this after seeing it once or twice. And God forbid if the networks try to make it MUST SEE TV.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pretty much everyone I know watched the video of the guy being beheaded.

I think the answer is pretty much everyone would.


[/ QUOTE ]

Doubtful. I'd guess you'd get a Nielsen rating of around 70 for the first two or three, then it would drop to single digits. No one would care about watching this after seeing it once or twice. And God forbid if the networks try to make it MUST SEE TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, see, I thought he was saying this would be a one time thing.

If this was a weekly occurance, then the answer is as you stated.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
In general, the people who commit murders do so in the heat of the moment and aren't considering the long-term consequences of their actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is of course true, but these societal conditioning mechanisms (like televising executions) work in a very subtle way -- any little bit toward ingraining into someone's head that this is just something you do not do is effective. It's all about percentages.

[dcasper70]

[ QUOTE ]

Oh, and then you'll have the lunatics who will kill simply to get on Fox's "Prime Time Executions". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed

And what would be the long term effects of such programming? Would it desensitize people to the seriousness of capital punishment?'

Has porn desensitized sex to today's America? Probably, but maybe better save that for another thread...

[Sponger15SB]

Only if the show is really entertaining...

[ QUOTE ]
Warden: Hi. Welcome to Lubbock State Penitentiary. I'm Warden Roy Groomis.. and welcome to the first local televised execution of convicted mass murderer Dean Slydell. Hi, Dean. How are you doing tonight?

Murderer: Well.. I guess I am a little nervous, Warden. It's my first time.

Warden: Dean.. tell us why you are in the chair tonight.

Murderer: Okay, Warden. Well, I guess it all started when I was a kid..

Warden: Don't take too long, Dean.. we don't have too much air time.

Murderer: Okay. I stabbed - or took part in the stabbing of - 29 bank employees.

Warden: Fine. Thank you. Now, a little bit about the chair itself. It's a beauty, folks. The chair is a custom-built Mainway Fry King, delivering 25,000 volts AC output at 2 amps boosted to 10 amps at point of execution.

Murderer: Say.. that's a lot.. of juice, Warden!

[/ QUOTE ]

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/76/76kexecution.phtml