Annie gets called out again!

[27offsuit]

Loved the story of Annie giving the "high hat" routine to the dude that won the bracelet on the day before the final table. Time is proving it to be 'typical Annie'.

I'm sorry, but she is just plain pompous and cliquey and she deserves the flack she gets. Daniel N. once posted a list of about ten different stories about her and they were all pretty bad. Since then, the stories from other sources have begun to add up as well.


And please, no replies about "how many final tables you been at dude?". I'm not a 'hater' nor a sycophant. I'm just an observer, and I simply observe that Annie Duke thinks she's better than just about everyone else.

All you have to do is just look at her face the entire time that shes there, Just looks pissed. Then gets put all in and gets all pissy about it. She is a very good player, but I think very overated. IMHO

[MonkeeMan]

Since OOT has a ban on poker content, this should be noted here. Annie's bod was looking pretty good on that show.

[CrazyN8]

how many final final tables have you been at?

just kidding....what was that all about? She looked like an evil, evil psycho.

[two0crew]

maybe I'm spoiled being a student at ASU but in no way is Annie Duke very hot..maybe when im 50

[JihadOnTheRiver]

SIIHP

[JihadOnTheRiver]

you got a link to those 10 stories? would be interesting.

[idrinkcoors]

I really don't understand why some people cannot appreciate what they have. For a lady who has over $2.5 million in tournament winnings in the past 15 months, and who gets to play poker for a living, she didn't look very happy.

[bustedchucks]

i like the way he took the piss out of her on the hand he took her out on. after they got it all in he's like "i don't kow what the odds are"
her: (waaaahhhh) its 3:2
him: oh, i knew youd know"
his tone was great.
long live the last laugh

[lighterjobs]

dude, how many final tables have you been to?

that's what i thought, bitch.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

We college students are spoiled, but while she may have a nice body, her face betrays her age. And she wears either too much makeup, or too little. (IE if she wore more she'd be able to pull off the evil gothic poker champion, now it just looks sleazy.)

If it wasn't for the whole "poker players are treated worse than slaves we pay to pick the cotton" I'd be less harsh, but seriously, f--- Annie Duke.

[radek2166]

sycophant \SIK-uh-fuhnt\, noun:
A person who seeks favor by flattering people of wealth or influence; a parasite; a toady.

Had to look this word up.

[kflop]

Saying that she was rude to that guy is only one persons unsubstantiated side of the story. It shouldn't be stated on TV, unless Chad witness it. We don't know what happen or if anything happened. Maybe at some point she was rude to Chad and that’s why we heard the story. If the guy wants to say it himself that's OK, he's got the right, as long as you give her a chance to respond. Everybody just accepts that she did this and was at fault. That’s called character assassination.

[Beavis68]

yeah, based on her friendly and cheerful demeanor at the final table, I am sure it is not true.

/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Shoe]

Watching last night's broadcast, there was one hand were Annie checked by holding her cards in her hand and hitting the table with them (like a normal rapp rapp but with her cards in her hand). However, before she started checking, it looked to me like she moved the cards towards the pot, and if the other guy wanted to shoot angles as much as she does, might of had a case for her hand being declared folded. Does anyone know what i'm talking about and if it is even reasonably close to what i'm saying? I wasn't paying full attention and don't have Tivo so i couldn't go back and look at it or anything.

I think it would be pretty amusing if someone tried to call her out on something like that.

[27offsuit]

do a search on Negraneau's site.

fullcontactpoker.com I think

[27offsuit]

I guess Howard's pretty pissed at DN as well. He sent a nasty open letter to him on another site which could also probably be found on his site.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
dude, how many final tables have you been to?

that's what i thought, bitch.

[/ QUOTE ]


That second line got me. Well done.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
Watching last night's broadcast, there was one hand were Annie checked by holding her cards in her hand and hitting the table with them (like a normal rapp rapp but with her cards in her hand). However, before she started checking, it looked to me like she moved the cards towards the pot, and if the other guy wanted to shoot angles as much as she does, might of had a case for her hand being declared folded. Does anyone know what i'm talking about and if it is even reasonably close to what i'm saying? I wasn't paying full attention and don't have Tivo so i couldn't go back and look at it or anything.

I think it would be pretty amusing if someone tried to call her out on something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That reminded me of one of DN's tales. She was in a hand with another pro heads up, he re-raised her big, she folded and asked what he had. He said 'Aces' or something to that effect (or affect, I can't say I know). He then mucked his cards and Annie picked them out of the muck, peeked at them and said "just checkin".....

And I'm pretty sure DN was at the table.

Stories like that...

[Skipbidder]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Watching last night's broadcast, there was one hand were Annie checked by holding her cards in her hand and hitting the table with them (like a normal rapp rapp but with her cards in her hand). However, before she started checking, it looked to me like she moved the cards towards the pot, and if the other guy wanted to shoot angles as much as she does, might of had a case for her hand being declared folded. Does anyone know what i'm talking about and if it is even reasonably close to what i'm saying? I wasn't paying full attention and don't have Tivo so i couldn't go back and look at it or anything.

I think it would be pretty amusing if someone tried to call her out on something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That reminded me of one of DN's tales. She was in a hand with another pro heads up, he re-raised her big, she folded and asked what he had. He said 'Aces' or something to that effect (or affect, I can't say I know). He then mucked his cards and Annie picked them out of the muck, peeked at them and said "just checkin".....

And I'm pretty sure DN was at the table.

Stories like that...

[/ QUOTE ]

In Positively Fifth Street, Jim McManus describes her cheating in this fashion at a satellite (pp180-181 in my copy). It was Tony Ma's hand that she illegally retrieved from the muck. By McManus' account, Dan Alspach and Noel Furlong were also at the table. He doesn't mention DN (and it seems like he would). Perhaps Duke has used this particular cheating method more than once.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Watching last night's broadcast, there was one hand were Annie checked by holding her cards in her hand and hitting the table with them (like a normal rapp rapp but with her cards in her hand). However, before she started checking, it looked to me like she moved the cards towards the pot, and if the other guy wanted to shoot angles as much as she does, might of had a case for her hand being declared folded. Does anyone know what i'm talking about and if it is even reasonably close to what i'm saying? I wasn't paying full attention and don't have Tivo so i couldn't go back and look at it or anything.

I think it would be pretty amusing if someone tried to call her out on something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That reminded me of one of DN's tales. She was in a hand with another pro heads up, he re-raised her big, she folded and asked what he had. He said 'Aces' or something to that effect (or affect, I can't say I know). He then mucked his cards and Annie picked them out of the muck, peeked at them and said "just checkin".....

And I'm pretty sure DN was at the table.

Stories like that...

[/ QUOTE ]

In Positively Fifth Street, Jim McManus describes her cheating in this fashion at a satellite (pp180-181 in my copy). It was Tony Ma's hand that she illegally retrieved from the muck. By McManus' account, Dan Alspach and Noel Furlong were also at the table. He doesn't mention DN (and it seems like he would). Perhaps Duke has used this particular cheating method more than once.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably my mistake but there you go. That's the story I was referring to.

[Jibbs]

Agreed. I saw Annie many times when I was in Vegas over the two months of the WSOP and she is really not that hot. If she was not famous for playing poker you would not even notice her walk down the street (especially in Vegas). She would just be another middle aged mother of 4.

[paperboyNC]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I saw Annie many times when I was in Vegas over the two months of the WSOP and she is really not that hot. If she was not famous for playing poker you would not even notice her walk down the street (especially in Vegas). She would just be another middle aged mother of 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

Annie is not really famous. A select few poker groupies know a lot about her /images/graemlins/smile.gif Poker celebs aren't celebs. Sorry.

[bweiser8311962]

She's a bitch with a capital B who is permanently PMSing. She's a great player, but she just comes across as a real witch.

[Jibbs]

[ QUOTE ]

Annie is not really famous. A select few poker groupies know a lot about her Poker celebs aren't celebs. Sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected and a little embarrassed. Thank You.

Didn't she really overreact in last year's main event to Brett Jungblut for having his cards in the muck or something? She's out of control and definitely overrated.

i've tried my best to search for DN's articles about her incidents, but have had no luck. what is the name of the article? searching for "annie duke" yields the wrong results on dan's website. does anyone have the link?

[nanoCRUSHER]

[ QUOTE ]
i've tried my best to search for DN's articles about her incidents, but have had no luck. what is the name of the article? searching for "annie duke" yields the wrong results on dan's website. does anyone have the link?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's actually a usenet post, here's the linky (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_thread/thread/d3269fb1595761f9/65fd6aea60ce40eb?lnk=st&q=insubject:annie+insubjec t:duke+author:Daniel+author:Negreanu&rnum=2&hl=en# 65fd6aea60ce40eb).

[Exitonly]

i enjoyed reading that... DN carries himself very well, don't always agree with him, but he always defends his side well.


(and this made me think much less of Annie.. but i still think Lederer is the man)

[KSOT]

It's really sad that after all these years people are still reading Daniel's gibberish for the first time and losing respect for Annie.

It someone wrote it down it MUST BE TRUE!

[Exitonly]

Well, what else do i have go on?

This is the evidencee i have about Annie Duke:

A) She looks like a cute housewife, and i like her long sleeve shirt under the tshirt look

B) A guy that i kind of respect, presented a decent amount of evidence that she's kind of bitchy.

---

It's not like i said i hate the woman and would never change my mind, just think less of her, because based on what i've been shown, it doesn't sound good.

Don't see what could be wrong with that.

[Shandrax]

I am really surprised that DN wrote stuff like that. It is very rare to see such a high profile player to share his true feelings about another player.

[ QUOTE ]
I am really surprised that DN wrote stuff like that. It is very rare to see such a high profile player to share his true feelings about another player.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was drunk.

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am really surprised that DN wrote stuff like that. It is very rare to see such a high profile player to share his true feelings about another player.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was drunk.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was A LONG TIME AGO.

1. Being a high profile player didn't mean then what it means now.
2. He wasn't that high profile of a player back then.

[r2p]

This story is in the McManus book "Positively Fifth Street"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Watching last night's broadcast, there was one hand were Annie checked by holding her cards in her hand and hitting the table with them (like a normal rapp rapp but with her cards in her hand). However, before she started checking, it looked to me like she moved the cards towards the pot, and if the other guy wanted to shoot angles as much as she does, might of had a case for her hand being declared folded. Does anyone know what i'm talking about and if it is even reasonably close to what i'm saying? I wasn't paying full attention and don't have Tivo so i couldn't go back and look at it or anything.

I think it would be pretty amusing if someone tried to call her out on something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

That reminded me of one of DN's tales. She was in a hand with another pro heads up, he re-raised her big, she folded and asked what he had. He said 'Aces' or something to that effect (or affect, I can't say I know). He then mucked his cards and Annie picked them out of the muck, peeked at them and said "just checkin".....

And I'm pretty sure DN was at the table.

Stories like that...

[/ QUOTE ]

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
sycophant \SIK-uh-fuhnt\, noun:
A person who seeks favor by flattering people of wealth or influence; a parasite; a toady.

Had to look this word up.

[/ QUOTE ]

sar·casm n.
A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
A joke that some humorless nit on 2+2 doesn't comprehend.
The use of sarcasm. See Synonyms at wit1.

[shakingspear]

Anyone know why Gary Carson hates Negreanu so much, besides the vague "he lied to me?"

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
i've tried my best to search for DN's articles about her incidents, but have had no luck. what is the name of the article? searching for "annie duke" yields the wrong results on dan's website. does anyone have the link?

[/ QUOTE ]

yah, I actually tried to retrieve it as well with no luck. I do know that it was originally posted on the RGB(?)forum, as was Howard's angry reply.

Whoever finds it first, please post it here.

[27offsuit]

aha. the link was already posted. thanks. and it was the RGP

rec.gaming.poker

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
It's really sad that after all these years people are still reading Daniel's gibberish for the first time and losing respect for Annie.

It someone wrote it down it MUST BE TRUE!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. All of those stories are made up......from thin air.

De...lusional.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know why Gary Carson hates Negreanu so much, besides the vague "he lied to me?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, quite a lot of hate there.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]

It's actually a usenet post, here's the linky (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_thread/thread/d3269fb1595761f9/65fd6aea60ce40eb?lnk=st&q=insubject:annie+insubjec t:duke+author:Daniel+author:Negreanu&rnum=2&hl=en# 65fd6aea60ce40eb).

[/ QUOTE ]

best quote from the article -
[ QUOTE ]
You see, I don't NEED to be Mr. Phony Nice Guy, all I gots to be is
who I is. I ain't gonna say what y'all want me to say, I'm onna
say wazz on my minds when I feels like it. Na' I mean? Damn
straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

and he ends with this-
[ QUOTE ]

You a cheat, I'll say so.
You a bi-atch-- I'll say so.
You a angle shooter, I'll let my peoples know.
You a fraud? huh, I'll expose you and feel no way…y'understan?

I'm out.

Daniel Negreanu

[/ QUOTE ]

and then this post in another thread-
[ QUOTE ]
You home girl where da love baby, daaaamn? Whaddya wan' from me
girl? I'm tellin' you on the level girl, I speak my minds and says
what I wanna. I don't wanna go on with dat whole UB smack y'know what
I'm sayin'? I covered that B. Next cause na i'm sayin'? Pee---ace.


[/ QUOTE ]

he's such a badass.

From Dannys latest blog entry

[ QUOTE ]
2. The Surreal Life- I ended up watching three episodes of the Surreal Life. After watching it, I dislike Omarosa more than I did before. Janice Dickensen is a spaz also, but at least you can see that she has a heart.

Everything Omarosa does is calculated. She even refers to herself as a Reality TV expert. They did that Dirty Laundry bit with Sally Jessy Raphael and she ended up looking so foolish. They showed clips of her "acting" and dissing the producers. She is totally disturbed and thinks she is some kind of diva. Wow, when that bubble bursts... she is going to be the one needing some serious help. Total nutcase that reminds me soooo much of a poker player with similar characteristics. No, I won't tell you who I mean :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wonder who hes talking about here, lol. At least we know nothing has changed.

[FrankStallone]

Some people might need to be upset or have their back against the wall to get the most out of themselves. She could be the Bill Romanowski of poker.

[byronkincaid]

I heard a story at the WSOP about Annie from a guy sitting at her table on day 1, she was in a pot with another player who completed a small flush on the turn. He makes a large bet but Annie says that he rapped the table and therefore checked. Nobody else including the dealer saw him do it but she calls the floor over and he agrees with her side of the story. Annie checks as well and the 4th flush card comes out. When the hand is over nobody is surprised to see that Annie had the Ace of that suit in her hand for the nut flush.

this could be totally untrue or very old news, I dunno just what I was told.

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know why Gary Carson hates Negreanu so much, besides the vague "he lied to me?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember once a long time ago on rgp (rec.gambling.poker) Negreanu offered to lay Carson $100,000 to $10,000 in a headsup match. Carson said, "Okay, let's play." Then they never played. That may be it.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
I am really surprised that DN wrote stuff like that. It is very rare to see such a high profile player to share his true feelings about another player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Back in the day, DN occasionally posted like this (possibly while drunk), particularly in response to Gary Carson's tweaking.

To be honest, I prefer raging nutty DN to mellow, married DN.

[Johnnyj580]

[ QUOTE ]
Saying that she was rude to that guy is only one persons unsubstantiated side of the story. It shouldn't be stated on TV, unless Chad witness it. We don't know what happen or if anything happened. Maybe at some point she was rude to Chad and that’s why we heard the story. If the guy wants to say it himself that's OK, he's got the right, as long as you give her a chance to respond. Everybody just accepts that she did this and was at fault. That’s called character assassination.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mom told me JFK was quite a character, and we all know what happened to him

[TheJackal]

I heard this story about Annie Duke. Back in early 1997, Annie was in line at a grocery store, and this little old lady had 16 items in the 15 or less lane. Annie said "Oh my god, that is so unfair, we all have less than 15 items and this lady has 16, oh my god!" So she shoved that lady out of the way, pushing her to the ground and stepping over her as she put her items on the checkout counter. Well that lady turned out to be none other than Mother Theresa. This is just what I heard...

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Mother Theresa took tons of stolen money from dictators in return for praising them, and screwed over poor people for the most part, so good for Annie Duke.

[uncleshady]

[ QUOTE ]
She could be the Bill Romanowski of poker.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank God she hasnt spit on anybody yet. Or used steroids to keep up with Phil Ivey...

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Norman Chad and Vince Van Patton can be the Joe Theismans of poker, announcers so bad that you wish LT would deliver them crippling injuries.

[Bartman387]

[ QUOTE ]
I heard a story at the WSOP about Annie from a guy sitting at her table on day 1, she was in a pot with another player who completed a small flush on the turn. He makes a large bet but Annie says that he rapped the table and therefore checked. Nobody else including the dealer saw him do it but she calls the floor over and he agrees with her side of the story. Annie checks as well and the 4th flush card comes out. When the hand is over nobody is surprised to see that Annie had the Ace of that suit in her hand for the nut flush.

this could be totally untrue or very old news, I dunno just what I was told.

[/ QUOTE ]

that was actually in the cardplayer reports from this years WSOP. Or if not cardplayer one of the other sites giving live reports had reported that. SO that story I trust to be true.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
From Dannys latest blog entry

[ QUOTE ]
2. The Surreal Life- I ended up watching three episodes of the Surreal Life. After watching it, I dislike Omarosa more than I did before. Janice Dickensen is a spaz also, but at least you can see that she has a heart.

Everything Omarosa does is calculated. She even refers to herself as a Reality TV expert. They did that Dirty Laundry bit with Sally Jessy Raphael and she ended up looking so foolish. They showed clips of her "acting" and dissing the producers. She is totally disturbed and thinks she is some kind of diva. Wow, when that bubble bursts... she is going to be the one needing some serious help. Total nutcase that reminds me soooo much of a poker player with similar characteristics. No, I won't tell you who I mean :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wonder who hes talking about here, lol. At least we know nothing has changed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hellmuth obviously.

[TheJackal]

[ QUOTE ]
Hellmuth obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope Daniel says it isn't Hellmuth. He is most likely talking about Annie Duke.
NOT HELLMUTH (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/viewtopic.php?t=31085&highlight=)

[TomHimself]

annie always seemed like a bitch on TV, wouldnt surprise me if danny's stories are true

[benkahuna]

[ QUOTE ]
annie always seemed like a bitch on TV, wouldnt surprise me if danny's stories are true

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been drinking so I just can't wait to put my two cents in on this little rumor thread. Despite the drinking, I'm not going to get silly and make stuff up.

Talking with dealers at the Rio a few days after the WSOP start, a few dealers shared some information. Pretty much everyone I talked to said that DN was a totally sweet, nice guy. And a few dealers pretty much said Annie was a bitch. So many sources seem to consistently say that Annie is a bitch that given the right circumstances such a high strung (anyone watch TOC from 2004) player with so many confirmed accounts being a bitch just seems oh so probable.

She's smart, she's articulate, she's a strong poker player (even considering any angle shooting), she's attractive (but not seriously so), and she's definitely good for poker, but by a consistent set of accounts (McManus, Negreanu, random gossip), she just doesn't come across as the nicest, most honest individual.

how could anyone think annie duke is attractive? i mean, she's not a complete dog, but could never be considered good looking. even for an older woman.

i hope howard doesn't personally attack me now.

[benkahuna]

[ QUOTE ]
how could anyone think annie duke is attractive? i mean, she's not a complete dog, but could never be considered good looking. even for an older woman.

i hope howard doesn't personally attack me now.

[/ QUOTE ]

"There's no accounting for taste." (maybe originally from Oscar Wilde, repeated by Margaret Mitchell in Gone With the Wind and throughout popular US and Western culture)

There's also the fame element. Famous people are just considered more attractive in general (seems to me). People thought Monica Lewinsky was attractive for some damn reason after she was plastered all over the news. I thought people with that opinion were just plain wrong.

[srw5n]

This whole thread is funny. It's a series of I heard this person is....

Why post if you've never met the person?

I played with at Duke's table for much of WSOP event #3 (and knocked her out after she was short stacked) and was briefly at her table for event 1. The entire time she was polite to everyone at the table including the dealers. She was very approachable, nice to talk to, etc. This despite the crowds of 40 year old droolers who follow her around and take her picture or ask for autographs while she's in the middle of hands. Other people asked to clear the droolers from the rail, but she was nothing but polite.

If you want to make your determination about someone strictly from second hand stories...toss this one in the mix...

[Temp Hutter]

[ QUOTE ]
This whole thread is funny. It's a series of I heard this person is....

Why post if you've never met the person?

I played with at Duke's table for much of WSOP event #3 (and knocked her out after she was short stacked) and was briefly at her table for event 1. The entire time she was polite to everyone at the table including the dealers. She was very approachable, nice to talk to, etc. This despite the crowds of 40 year old droolers who follow her around and take her picture or ask for autographs while she's in the middle of hands. Other people asked to clear the droolers from the rail, but she was nothing but polite.

If you want to make your determination about someone strictly from second hand stories...toss this one in the mix...

[/ QUOTE ]

I played with her for several hours at the WPF last year and I have to agree that she was very nice to everyone at the table and pretty tolerant to the many fans that kept trying to get her attention while we were playing.

I will say however that her demeanor towards me changed in accordance to my chip stack. I found this rather peculiar. Most players will look at the chip leader of the table differently, it was just odd to see that transformation happen with her over the course of a few hours. I went from persona non grata to "hey, what's your sign?" kinda thing. When my chip lead fell off I was back to persona non grata. It was just weird, but it may not have been intentional at all. It may have been more of a subconscious thing because everyone wants to be buddy buddy with the chip leader so he won't came after you.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]


I played with her for several hours at the WPF last year and I have to agree that she was very nice to everyone at the table and pretty tolerant to the many fans that kept trying to get her attention while we were playing.

I will say however that her demeanor towards me changed in accordance to my chip stack. I found this rather peculiar. Most players will look at the chip leader of the table differently, it was just odd to see that transformation happen with her over the course of a few hours. I went from persona non grata to "hey, what's your sign?" kinda thing. When my chip lead fell off I was back to persona non grata. It was just weird, but it may not have been intentional at all. It may have been more of a subconscious thing because everyone wants to be buddy buddy with the chip leader so he won't came after you.

[/ QUOTE ]


I believe the term for that is 'stack whore'.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I played with her for several hours at the WPF last year and I have to agree that she was very nice to everyone at the table and pretty tolerant to the many fans that kept trying to get her attention while we were playing.

I will say however that her demeanor towards me changed in accordance to my chip stack. I found this rather peculiar. Most players will look at the chip leader of the table differently, it was just odd to see that transformation happen with her over the course of a few hours. I went from persona non grata to "hey, what's your sign?" kinda thing. When my chip lead fell off I was back to persona non grata. It was just weird, but it may not have been intentional at all. It may have been more of a subconscious thing because everyone wants to be buddy buddy with the chip leader so he won't came after you.

[/ QUOTE ]


I believe the term for that is 'stack whore'.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I hadn't learned a new word yet today. Thanks!

[Spook]

I know DN has retracted pretty much everything he wrote/thought about Duke and they are actually 'friends' now.

Stack whore - She does so much talking at the table, of course she is going to be trying to throw of the game of the people with the most chips / overall more threatening players. Just like the quite guy is going to try to stare you down more than stare down the guy with 3 BB.

[KaneKungFu123]

if she looked at my hole cards i'd be tempted to grab the bitch by her hair and beat her to death joe pesci style.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]


I played with at Duke's table for much of WSOP event #3 (and knocked her out after she was short stacked) and was briefly at her table for event 1. The entire time she was polite to everyone at the table including the dealers.

If you want to make your determination about someone strictly from second hand stories...toss this one in the mix...

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlike you and a few others, most everyone here knows only what we see on TV. As we all SHOULD know, TV is heavily edited for drama. So what we generally see of Annie Duke or anyone else on TV is a few highlights of high pressure decisions, and reactions to the outcome.

Given all of that, it is my personal opinion that Annie is a poor loser, and I don't like that. What I have seen on TV is sufficient evidence of that for me, and cannot be offset by any amount of otherwise graciousness.

On TV, she comes across, or is made out to be, about a 90% bitch. Many here do not look beyond that image. I am quite willing to believe that she is 90% or even 99% gracious and polite. I still don't like her. That reflects my values and how I think professionals should behave.

The highly competitive nature and upbringing of Annie and her brother are well documented. The difference in their behaviour when thing don't go their way is like night and day. I respect them both for their skills. I respect Howard for his professionalism.

Norman Chad had a line about Hellmuth being not only a poor loser, but a poor winner. Annie is a gracious winner. She could stand a lot of improvement on the other end of the spectrum.

I also think that she is an elitest, and feels that playing with anyone other than the top 1% of players in the world is demeaning to her. This may also be TV image, but I have seen enough of it to make up my mind, and to feel that no amount of politeness the other 95% of the time makes up for that.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I played with at Duke's table for much of WSOP event #3 (and knocked her out after she was short stacked) and was briefly at her table for event 1. The entire time she was polite to everyone at the table including the dealers.

If you want to make your determination about someone strictly from second hand stories...toss this one in the mix...

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlike you and a few others, most everyone here knows only what we see on TV. As we all SHOULD know, TV is heavily edited for drama. So what we generally see of Annie Duke or anyone else on TV is a few highlights of high pressure decisions, and reactions to the outcome.

Given all of that, it is my personal opinion that Annie is a poor loser, and I don't like that. What I have seen on TV is sufficient evidence of that for me, and cannot be offset by any amount of otherwise graciousness.

On TV, she comes across, or is made out to be, about a 90% bitch. Many here do not look beyond that image. I am quite willing to believe that she is 90% or even 99% gracious and polite. I still don't like her. That reflects my values and how I think professionals should behave.

The highly competitive nature and upbringing of Annie and her brother are well documented. The difference in their behaviour when thing don't go their way is like night and day. I respect them both for their skills. I respect Howard for his professionalism.

Norman Chad had a line about Hellmuth being not only a poor loser, but a poor winner. Annie is a gracious winner. She could stand a lot of improvement on the other end of the spectrum.

I also think that she is an elitest, and feels that playing with anyone other than the top 1% of players in the world is demeaning to her. This may also be TV image, but I have seen enough of it to make up my mind, and to feel that no amount of politeness the other 95% of the time makes up for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post.

It reminded me of the 'nuts' segment on howard and annie playing all the games of their childhood. Howard said something like 'and when Annie lost, boards and pieces would go flying across the room'...


...and get your smelly bare feet off the fu*king chair. Christ!

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

how could anyone think annie duke is attractive? i mean, she's not a complete dog, but could never be considered good looking. even for an older woman.

[/ QUOTE ]


Some people have argued that those who DON'T think that annie duke is attractive are just young, college-students who can't see beyond their age-group or the skinny models in Stuff magazine, etc.


Well, I'm 34....and I am not attracted to the magazine-type models either.


I don't think Annie Duke is terribly attractive.

[Exitonly]

she's nothing special, but not a bad looking 40 year old mother of however many kids. I kinda like her style, but her face is a bit crazy. Overall life could be a lot worse if my wife ends up looking like her in 20 years.

(and i'm one of those crazy 19 year old college kids)

[ QUOTE ]
i've tried my best to search for DN's articles about her incidents, but have had no luck. what is the name of the article? searching for "annie duke" yields the wrong results on dan's website. does anyone have the link?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been over there in ages but DN posted the story on the newsgroup rec.gambling.poker a few years ago. Later it was re-posted (perhaps by someone else with Daniel commenting) on 2+2 but with the 6 month search limit it's hard to find.

If you use Google's Advanced Group Search find Daniel's old posting name and cross on terms such as "Annie" "feet" "Bellagio" "chairs" and "disgusting".

[MicroBob]

I thought she was younger than 40 for some reason...but I don't really know.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought she was younger than 40 for some reason...but I don't really know.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Wiki:

[ QUOTE ]
Annie Duke (born September 13, 1965 in Concord, New Hampshire) is a professional poker player and sister of poker pro Howard Lederer and author/poet Katy Lederer.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bio on her own website doesn't give her age, but it does modestly refer to her as:

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty, smart and popular...

[/ QUOTE ]

and

[ QUOTE ]
...one of the best poker players in the world...

[/ QUOTE ]

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought she was younger than 40 for some reason...but I don't really know.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to Wiki:

[ QUOTE ]
Annie Duke (born September 13, 1965 in Concord, New Hampshire) is a professional poker player and sister of poker pro Howard Lederer and author/poet Katy Lederer.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bio on her own website doesn't give her age, but it does modestly refer to her as:

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty, smart and popular...

[/ QUOTE ]

and

[ QUOTE ]
...one of the best poker players in the world...

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


Wow, I didn't realize she designed her site too.

Nice quotes.....

[palman]

I've met Annie, liked annie, won $500 from her in a prop bet with me betting on Matusow down in Aruba last year, and believe she can have a bitchy side to her.

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know why Gary Carson hates Negreanu so much, besides the vague "he lied to me?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Negreanu got into a pissing match with Carson during the famous 44 thread on rgp. Negreanu offered Carson a bet and gave him 10-1 odds on any amount he could raise for a headsup match. Carson raised a lot of money, tv rights etc, and it turned out Negreanu was broke and backed out. Negreanu also left drunk threatening messages on Carsons phone. Something like that.

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
I know DN has retracted pretty much everything he wrote/thought about Duke and they are actually 'friends' now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they are. All the pros put on a big public act of togetherness and support. RGP was/is one of the few places you could ever see that mask slip.

Prior to Daniels attacks on Duke, the public image presented was that they were friends, as it was for much of that group of name pros.

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
If the guy wants to say it himself that's OK, he's got the right, as long as you give her a chance to respond. Everybody just accepts that she did this and was at fault. That’s called character assassination.

[/ QUOTE ]


It's called the First Amendment, not character assassination. You sound like you're bucking to be the new Johnnie Cochran. Since Annie also has 1st Amendment rights, she can reply however she pleases. No one is preventing her.

[I realize the 1st Amendment only applies to the gov't not interfering with free speech, the point is only more valid on the Net however.]

She is by far the most overrated NL player out there. People rag on Hellmuth and he's got 8 more bracelets than her. DN will play anyone, any GAME they choose up to $500k. Annie's got 1 bracelet [so 1 less than Scott Fischman, or is it 2 now? and same number as Gank. Wheeeeee!]
She even needed that brutal suckout on her brother to survive at the ToC when she should have known Howard had a better hand than her lousy low pair.

naj

[kflop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the guy wants to say it himself that's OK, he's got the right, as long as you give her a chance to respond. Everybody just accepts that she did this and was at fault. That’s called character assassination.

[/ QUOTE ]


Where can she reply, here: With 40 people out there right now. Chad told maybe 5 million people that she was a total jerkoff. She supposedly gave the "high hat" to a nice guy at his first final table. Nobody likes that type of person. She should have been given the opportunity to respond then. Maybe it’s true, but before you put that on TV you should get the other side of the story.
naj

[/ QUOTE ]

[kflop]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I included the wrong quote. Here's yours.


It's called the First Amendment, not character assassination. You sound like you're bucking to be the new Johnnie Cochran. Since Annie also has 1st Amendment rights, she can reply however she pleases. No one is preventing her.





Where can she reply, here: With 40 people out there right now. Chad told maybe 5 million people that she was a total jerkoff. She supposedly gave the "high hat" to a nice guy at his first final table. Nobody likes that type of person. She should have been given the opportunity to respond then. Maybe it’s true, but before you put that on TV you should get the other side of the story.

[Smoothcall]

NO this is a tactic she uses. She has said in interviews that she likes to be nice to the big chip stack at her table so they won't come after her.

Shew can be nice at times but i think its more of an act with the chip leader or the public. And she's nice and genuine to people only in her click. Jmo.

[Sluss]

[ QUOTE ]
Saying that she was rude to that guy is only one persons unsubstantiated side of the story. It shouldn't be stated on TV, unless Chad witness it. We don't know what happen or if anything happened. Maybe at some point she was rude to Chad and that’s why we heard the story. If the guy wants to say it himself that's OK, he's got the right, as long as you give her a chance to respond. Everybody just accepts that she did this and was at fault. That’s called character assassination.

[/ QUOTE ]

When a pattern of behavior is shown, now fourth time I have heard a completely different person tell of story of this attitude and her brother's response being, well that's Annie. It starts to just be your character. We all reap the fields we sow.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Saying that she was rude to that guy is only one persons unsubstantiated side of the story. It shouldn't be stated on TV, unless Chad witness it. We don't know what happen or if anything happened. Maybe at some point she was rude to Chad and that’s why we heard the story. If the guy wants to say it himself that's OK, he's got the right, as long as you give her a chance to respond. Everybody just accepts that she did this and was at fault. That’s called character assassination.

[/ QUOTE ]

When a pattern of behavior is shown, now fourth time I have heard a completely different person tell of story of this attitude and her brother's response being, well that's Annie. It starts to just be your character. We all reap the fields we sow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its easy to get a pretty bad impression of Annie Duke from all this. And in the very remote possibility that I ever find mysel playing with her I'll be cautious.

Having had a little experience with evidence in a courtroom setting, though, I think you folks vastly underestimate the ability of stories like this to get around and to start to come from a lot of different people and still not have any basis in reality. Eye witness accounts of things are very odd things. "I talked to a guy who was there when Annie did..." is an incredibly unreliable source of information, even when those type of stories come from many different sources.

Even Daniel N, as I recall mostly reported stories he'd heard from other people and maybe one or two he says he saw himself (I can't remember--she called him cup boy, and looked at his mucked cards or something like that).

Hey my impression of Annie, like many other peoples, is pretty negative. But its based on the same stories all of you are hearing. And the idea that, if so many people are saying it, it must be true, is simply a logical fallacy. The old, where there's smoke there must be fire way of looking at the world.

I would also point out, that we haven't caught her boorish behvior on film, unlike with some of our more notorious male poker celebs. With guys like Mike the Mouth, however, its always, hey he wears his heart on his sleeve and is basically a good guy underneath that bluster and I kind of like him. Phil Helmuth gets the, he's entertaining to watch and good for the game. Annie gets, what a bitch! I wonder why...

--Zetack

[benkahuna]

Because we're all sexist jerks, obviously.

Nice suggestion. Maybe you haven't read the forums very much, but you'll find the behaviors or more well known, often seen pros like Hellmuth, Matusow and Duke critiqued in both positive and negative ways. Maybe you should read the forums before you use the big brushstroke and assassinate the characters of everyone here.

Oh yeah, and this isn't a [censored] courtroom.

I acknowledge and others have also said Annie is good for the game too.

[WhiskyRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I would also point out, that we haven't caught her boorish behvior on film, unlike with some of our more notorious male poker celebs. With guys like Mike the Mouth, however, its always, hey he wears his heart on his sleeve and is basically a good guy underneath that bluster and I kind of like him. Phil Helmuth gets the, he's entertaining to watch and good for the game. Annie gets, what a bitch! I wonder why...

--Zetack

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll tell you why, because the image she chooses to display, for better or for worse, is the OPPOSITE of what these stories (true or not) portray. The problem is Annie is being accused of exactly the opposite of what you said about Matusow. She ISN'T a "good guy" underneath, and that's why she's disliked.

[CrazyN8]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil Helmuth gets the, he's entertaining to watch and good for the game. Annie gets, what a bitch!

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, Phil is a bitch, too.

I would take a bitchy woman over phil hellmuth any day, simply for the fact that he reminds me of every annoying chatbox coach I've ever played, and being near him I'd feel hard-pressed not to put one of my size 16's right in between his nuts.

god I hate that guy.

[CrazyN8]

http://www.5stardeal.com/WEBSITE/gaming/pictures/10-777ad.jpg

You shall all refer to her as "The Duchess" from now on! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Hauser_III]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.5stardeal.com/WEBSITE/gaming/pictures/10-777ad.jpg

You shall all refer to her as "The Duchess" from now on! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks kind of like Bugs Bunny....

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]

She even needed that brutal suckout on her brother to survive at the ToC when she should have known Howard had a better hand than her lousy low pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

She had 66 and he had 77 right? So given that Howard can make that move with 77, we can justifiably say he wouldn't do it with 22-44 or AK? There's an actual cut-off for where Howard makes that move and it happens to be 77 and better? Doesn't sound like you're at all letting what Howard actually had influence your determination of his range of hands...

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Because we're all sexist jerks, obviously.

Nice suggestion. Maybe you haven't read the forums very much, but you'll find the behaviors or more well known, often seen pros like Hellmuth, Matusow and Duke critiqued in both positive and negative ways. Maybe you should read the forums before you use the big brushstroke and assassinate the characters of everyone here.

Oh yeah, and this isn't a [censored] courtroom.

I acknowledge and others have also said Annie is good for the game too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Touchy much?

Character assasination? Ya know, if I ever assasinate your character you'll know about it.

I don't really see the relevance of your this is not a courtroom comment. That seems kind of obvious from the lack of judges, bailiffs, lawsuits, and oh yeah, courtrooms. I also fail to see what that has to do with my observation that second hand rumor is a pretty unreliable source for just about anything.


Lots of people say it, so it must be true. Ok.

--Zetack

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.5stardeal.com/WEBSITE/gaming/pictures/10-777ad.jpg

You shall all refer to her as "The Duchess" from now on! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There's only one "Duchess", Allison Fisher, the "Duchess of Doom". Top female pool player. Ever.

http://www.easypooltutor.com/images/upload/10539385281.jpg

Sorry but I have to respond to this post. First of all, she is there to win poker tournaments not to sit around and chat. Second of all, when she has all her money in the pot she does want to explain to some dude what the freakin' odds are. It's the WSOP not some home game.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
With guys like Mike the Mouth, however, its always, hey he wears his heart on his sleeve and is basically a good guy underneath that bluster and I kind of like him. Phil Helmuth gets the, he's entertaining to watch and good for the game. Annie gets, what a bitch! I wonder why...

[/ QUOTE ]


I find Phil and Mike's behavior to be completely reprehensible and I would never defend those guys.
I do not have a terribly positive view of Annie...but I do view her FAR more positively than Mike or Phil.


Those guys are FAR bitchier and worse-behaved on a regular basis than Annie has EVER been.

[27offsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With guys like Mike the Mouth, however, its always, hey he wears his heart on his sleeve and is basically a good guy underneath that bluster and I kind of like him. Phil Helmuth gets the, he's entertaining to watch and good for the game. Annie gets, what a bitch! I wonder why...

[/ QUOTE ]


I find Phil and Mike's behavior to be completely reprehensible and I would never defend those guys.
I do not have a terribly positive view of Annie...but I do view her FAR more positively than Mike or Phil.


Those guys are FAR bitchier and worse-behaved on a regular basis than Annie has EVER been.

[/ QUOTE ]

They just don't give off that "I'm so better than you" vibe. Even Phil. He may say it, but he doesn't exude it.

Annie exudes elitism...

[benkahuna]

I found your comment unfair and annoying. If that makes me touchy so be it.

You made a cute little insinuation at the end of your post. I called you out on it. Pretty basic. You either conveniently ignored certain facts or you were unaware of these facts.

You used your "in the courtroom" scenario as a means to justify that second hand information isn't necessarily any good. Since this isn't a courtroom and isn't even a good analogy for a courtroom (which you counter-satirize me about--very odd, btw) I mentioned the fact. You mention some courtroom nonsense completely irrelevant to the matter at hand as reasoning supporting your argument and you got called on it. If you're not trying to say that your courtroom is somehow relevant to discussion here, why mention it? (rhetorical question, do not answer) Seems like you've now decided to back out on your reasoning. Guess you don't have that much conviction in it.

I also never claimed that if a lot of people say something, it must be true rendering your comment along those lines irrelevant. Further, I don't believe that. I take a probabalistic line weighting information by the source's apparent veracity and frequency of occurance. Dealers saying nice things about some pros and less nice things about other pros, unsolicited to low stakes players with no apparent ability to use said information strikes me as a generally reliable source.

My post was strictly about pointing out the problems with your comment.

To be fair, I'll state my opinion on the matter. When more people agree on how someone acts, the more likely to me they act as described. I'll still approach the person in an open-minded manner, but more warily. I've consistently found it to be the case that people that were described as assholes or bitches to me by a large number of people, that person consistently turned out that way. I'm not saying that my experience necessarily holds true for all cases, but I'm treating it as true for myself. I'm not saying Annie is a certain way, but the magic eight ball says "all signs point to yes" when asked if Annie is a bitch, at least some of the time. The fact that no other top female player is described as such that I've come across also doesn't make her look very good by comparison. Who knows though, maybe she's the nicest player in the world, the most gracious loser, never shoots angles, etc. etc.

You might not get much out of replying for a few reasons:

1. I'm not interested in some lame flame war or back and forth argument.
2. I don't really respect your posts along these lines seeing them filled with sloppy, faulty reasoning and dishonesty in admitting what you previously said.
3. We mostly don't see eye to eye about this issue (so agree to disagree makes the most sense) or about how to even have this kind of discussion. No communication seems to preclude there being a point to interaction.
4. I'm not going to reply to anything further you have to offer.

Don't make ridiculous comments unless you're going to provide some evidence.

I think there is a slight difference between Hellmuth's attitude (I'm the best poker player in the world) and the attitude of other poker players, who aren't afraid to let you know they think you totally suck.

[Smoothcall]

You think Hellmuth is afraid to tell you you suck? LOL Right after he tells you how good he is he tells you how bad you are.