Discussion of %s

[rt1]

When we started this forum we said it was going to slowly progress as nothing is set in stone. A lot of users want discussion of %s, which we are trying to find a middle ground for.

If we allow users to post they get XX% from site YY it can too easily be abused for spamming.

The other side of the argument is that if no %s are discussed then the player will not know if he getting a fair rate. The purpose of this forum is to disseminate information about rakeback to the seasoned pro and the newbie. This is a broad range of topics and we do not want to lose sight of %’s but also do not want to be consumed by it. One of the purposes of this forum is to help 2+2ers get the best rakeback solution, which includes %, reliability, promotions, etc.

We have decided to allow affiliates to discuss their % in a thread that we will be setting up soon. Affiliates will each be given a section in this thread used to describe their business, operation, and sites / % that they will offer. There will be no discussion outside this thread. If anyone has questions regarding rakeback percentages, just link to this thread. It will contain everything a player needs to know. Please note: it is not THIS thread, it is the one we are setting up.

This should help shoppers find the best deal without creating a massive amount of spam. It will also keep clutter and repetitive threads down to a minimum. I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Ryan

[StellarWind]

I feel that in this forum I should be able to say that 25% rakeback at Foo Poker is widely available and that no one should accept less. I also should be able to say that I searched for three weeks and no one would give me 30%.

This type of information is extremely helpful and it is in no sense an abuse of the forum.

There is a difference between discussing a market and advertising in that market. We all know the difference when we see it. Enforcing that difference will be a major pain in the ass for you, but it is what you should strive for if you want this forum to be the best it can be.

I realize that your bosses at certain poker sites I won't mention may be having a stroke right now. They want this business to be kept discrete and that just isn't the way the world is going. I don't know what to advise you other than do what you need to do to keep them happy even if people here don't like it. It's for everyone's good. We don't need another PokerNow debacle.

BTW, I'm really glad that 2+2 is finally addressing this. You cannot be the ultimate poker discussion site and keep pretending this subject doesn't exist.

[rt1]

If the user looks at the affiliate thread and sees no affiliate offers over 25% at Empire, he will know that 25% is the going rate. If he sees affiliates offering wide ranges of %s he will be able to pick and choose.

If I make a post saying 'I get 50% back from Empire' I will have 30 pms asking who my affiliate is. This is way too easy for spammers to abuse and we need to draw the line here.

[The4Aces]

i like the idea

[NLSoldier]

so will any affiliates get to post their % in that thread or just you green guys?

[rt1]

I have been back in forth on this issue. Obviously, the people who pay for advertising in this forum will not want it to be a free/open list. Even if the free listings are located at the bottom, they still take up space and provide competition. I believe if you are a paying advertiser in this forum you deserve something a little extra.

Another issue is that we have to make sure all of these people are legit affiliates and not scammers. If we are getting all these no namers requesting a free listing it would become a full time job to police, something we do not have time for.

However, I do not want this to be a ‘buy your way into the a-list’ type program. All of the other rakeback directory sites (RRR, poker rake refund) require that you buy into the list. So, I guess as I am typing this I am really leaning towards it being an advertiser only list. If you do have solutions / ideas please post them.

-Ryan

[jaguar]

Am i allowed to ask something like this?

"I play XXX hands on site YYY every month on limit ZZZ for a total MGR of xxxx. What kind of % more than the standard yy% is it reasonable for me to get?"

[poincaraux]

[ QUOTE ]
Am i allowed to ask something like this?

"I play XXX hands on site YYY every month on limit ZZZ for a total MGR of xxxx. What kind of % more than the standard yy% is it reasonable for me to get?"

[/ QUOTE ]
What about something like this: affiliates can email one of the mods a list of percentages, etc. That mod then publishes a histogram with the results. No affiliate names, just a distribution. If that's too much work, maybe something like "this month, the Party+Skins histogram .. next month, the XXX histogram." That still might be more work than the mods want to volunteer for, but I think it would be quite useful.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
so will any affiliates get to post their % in that thread or just you green guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

im not green /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
If the user looks at the affiliate thread and sees no affiliate offers over 25% at Empire, he will know that 25% is the going rate. If he sees affiliates offering wide ranges of %s he will be able to pick and choose.

If I make a post saying 'I get 50% back from Empire' I will have 30 pms asking who my affiliate is. This is way too easy for spammers to abuse and we need to draw the line here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not necessarily true. I had a very eyeopening phone conversation with one of my affilliates last night. He really explained the mechanics of how things worked. And what actually can be gained by a player with the right things toi offer and the knowledge of what is actually feasible.

I think a discussion of the percentages that maybe actually available, would be very beneficial to the players, but probably not so beneficial to the bottom lines of some of the affiliates.

[LImitPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
If the user looks at the affiliate thread and sees no affiliate offers over 25% at Empire, he will know that 25% is the going rate. If he sees affiliates offering wide ranges of %s he will be able to pick and choose

[/ QUOTE ]

That's simply not true. I suggest that 25% is the rate affiliates would like people to take. My affiliate lists the site I play at as 25%, thats his going rate. Other affiliates offer more as a going rate at that site. However I get more than 25%

I'm all for talk about rakeback however this new thread will be kind of pointless if you let affiliates just list their "standard rate"

People want the best % possible and simply listing the going rates won't help anyone answer anything. You can get the same info from the rakeback review site.

It still doesnt help players who want to know if they can get more or should be getting more because their affiliate is greedy.

On the other hand I can understand an affiliate only wanting to pay out 25% instead of 27% or 30% + if they can becuase the player is naive or simply doesnt understand what his rate should be or could be.

I gross about 20,000 in MGR each month and I know I should not be getting the standard rate and I don't.

What about the player who generates the same MGR and is getting the standard 25% deal? He's loosing a lot of money each month because he doesn't know what his fair share is.

I know my rate isn't the best I can get as I have been offered an extra 2% more than what I am getting from my current affiliate. However I like my affiliate and have never had a problem so I am not switching however, It makes me wonder how much I could be getting as my affiliate is one of the largest around

[AAAA]

There are problems discussing percentages and only percentages. I just had a discussion with a site going back and forth for ten emails about percentage of What?

If you start talking with skins, they start telling you a percentage of what they get, not the gross rake. While it would be ideal if everyone talked only about Gross Rake, only one site I know still uses Gross Rake with no deductions for promotions, or transaction fees or chargebacks.

If you take 60% of 70% it is still only 42% of gross, but it sounds so much better. I had one guy who was told 40% at PokerShare, before they stopped allowing rake back accounts. What he forgot to say was that the 40% was just the standard profit sharing and not rake back at all.

People are complaining about affiliates who don't raise percentages when the play volume increases. How about old old accounts where the affiliate just doesnt' know who the player was. We have asked sites to email offers to old accounts, because we would gladly give them money back now that most sites allow it.

The other big thing to consider is what method of rake a site is using. The difference between Party style and Prima or Poker Room style is tremendous for a solid player.

I guess the bottom line is that there is just a lot more to consider than the percentage. I almost forgot to discuss if tourney fees are included for rake back.

[KaBoom]

[ QUOTE ]
The other big thing to consider is what method of rake a site is using. The difference between Party style and Prima or Poker Room style is tremendous for a solid player.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, which is the best for the solid player out of these 3?

[AAAA]

the solid player should prefer the Party method. Prima and Poker Room are the same, and to my knowledge, only bodog has a slightly different method. They pay you an equal share of the rake if you see the flop(at least that is how they calculate for clearing bonuses). That method is somewhere in between the Party and Prima/PokerRoom method for the solid player.