View Full Version : First Ever Time Playing Limit.. and it will be in a Casino.
Im an NL player, and Im going to the casino for the first time. I have heard that the limit games are softer. So if Im gonna buy two books preparatory to going, one to help my limit play, and one to help me prepare for live games (tells, avoiding them)... which two should I buy?
thanks guys.
jdl22
10-05-2005, 12:57 AM
I would say SSHE for limit play and don't bother with the tells book, spend the time you would have spent reading that rereading SSHE. You will make more money this way.
really, okay. thanks for saving me money.
If you're a competent NL player, you should be able to skip the most elementary stuff (WLLH, GSIH).
I think SSH is all you need.
haha, Im a winning nl player, but I dont wanna say competent.
Im pickin up SSH, but does everyone agree that its not worth my time to try to pick up a "reads" book? I'll be playing lower limit and nl, as Im bringin about 500 with me.
Well think about this.
The majority of professional poker players have studied Caro's book of Tells. That definently says something. Of course the tells aren't going to apply to everyone and sometimes they will even be the opposite of what Caro says but you have to adapt to that.
Take it as a guide just like any starting hand chart and adapt it to that situation. Keyword: Dynamic
Although if you consider yourself a good observer who trusts his intuition your not in trouble.
Cheers,
Li.
uncleshady
10-05-2005, 07:07 AM
Just make sure you dont start "clicking" your "air" mouse when you have a monster... lol
haha, I figure I'll be okay, except I hope I dont mess up and say something like:
hmm,sir, my hud isnt working, what would you say your vpip% is?
seriously thuogh, Im halfed scared I have some facial tick, or I will look like an idiot because I've never been to a casino before... dont even know where to go to buy chips.
but thats why Im bringin a couple vets with me.
OrangeKing
10-05-2005, 11:25 AM
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seriously thuogh, Im halfed scared I have some facial tick
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Even if you do, virtually nobody will notice. Oh, and if you're a decent NL player, the lower buy-in NL games in casinos are just as soft or softer than even the low-limit games.
bookie socks
10-05-2005, 01:53 PM
If you are going to play low limit hold em forget the books on tells and try Lee Jones book. Winning Low Limit Hold em 2nd edition (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1886070156/104-7764150-6702335?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glanc e)
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1886070156.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
I read this book before going to BELLAGIOS . I bought into a 2/4 limit with $100 and in 2 hours I doubled my money while the other players kept pulling out their wallets. Maybe beginners luck. But I really had no experience before this and I played by the book and I'll give it credit.
Mason Malmuth
10-05-2005, 02:10 PM
Hi lord:
While Caro's Tell book certainly has value, it's value is way overrated by Caro. I worte an article years ago where I estimated in a $20-$40 game (in a live casino) that the Caro type tells were worth approximately $2 per hour, not the figures he gives. So while most good professional players are certainly familiar with his book, for this poster Small Stakes Hold 'em would certainly be much better.
Best wishes,
Mason
mike4bmp
10-05-2005, 02:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to play low limit hold em forget the books on tells and try Lee Jones book. Winning Low Limit Hold em 2nd edition (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1886070156/104-7764150-6702335?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glanc e)
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1886070156.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
I read this book before going to BELLAGIOS . I bought into a 2/4 limit with $100 and in 2 hours I doubled my money while the other players kept pulling out their wallets. Maybe beginners luck. But I really had no experience before this and I played by the book and I'll give it credit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although I like this book as well you will find that some of the information and strategy in it will be in conflict with SSHE...I would just get SSHE first and then read WLLH by Jones later...or even vice versa as SSHE is a littler harder to digest on the fly without a little Small stakes experience....
Definitely skip the Caro book for now...I have his book and videos...useful info but probably not useful enough for the games that you will be playing in...concentrate on the rudiments of limit play so that you can progress quicker.
betgo
10-05-2005, 03:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Im an NL player, and Im going to the casino for the first time. I have heard that the limit games are softer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Where did you hear that? Live 1/2 NL is generally very soft.
[ QUOTE ]
While Caro's Tell book certainly has value, it's value is way overrated by Caro. I worte an article years ago where I estimated in a $20-$40 game (in a live casino) that the Caro type tells were worth approximately $2 per hour, not the figures he gives. So while most good professional players are certainly familiar with his book, for this poster Small Stakes Hold 'em would certainly be much better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I don't agree with those figures Caro projects either Mason. Frankly, I couldn't understand how he arrived at such an estimate.
I've ordered SSHE so I can't recommend it as of yet but it sounds juicy.
Cheers,
Li.
[ QUOTE ]
does everyone agree that its not worth my time to try to pick up a "reads" book?
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.
SlantNGo
10-05-2005, 04:44 PM
No one will notice even if you have tells unless you play at 20/40... maybe 10/20, but certainly not most 3/6 and 5/10 games.
wow, thanks for all the responses guys, I picked up SSHE this morning. I will be bringing 500 with me, and I will split my time evenly between the 1/2 nl game and a 3/6/12 limit game.
so I have one more question: Assuming I show a profit, what is the beest way of going about getting a room comped?
and while we're at it, how buot food comps?
You will not get your room comped for playing poker; the best you can hope for is a poker rate. Food comps work differently different places.
does that mean I have to hit the damn blackjack tables?
oh if I only knew how to play that.
It means you should just pay for the damn room rather than trying to get it comped. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
but Im cheeeeeeeap!
haha, what could I expect as an average per night room charge? I will most likely choose which casino to go to based on the prices... since I can just go to another poker room.
Vincent Lepore
10-06-2005, 05:29 PM
Do not, I repeat do not buy any books! None - nada - el Nino (is that right?) Anyway do not buy any books before your first time in a casino. If NL is your game and it is available then play it. Since you've never played limit I must assume that NL is your better game.
Go to a Casino that offers NLH with buy-ins and stakes that you can afford. Put youy name on the list. Do not worry about game selection or seat selection or coctail waitressess, although they are a big part of my casino selection. Don't worry about a thing. Take the most money you can afford and are willing to lose. Play until you lose it or get tired, then quit and go home. No marathon session please.
Then go home and think about it. Think about what you just experienced. Ask yourself if putting the time in that is necessary to become a proficient poker player is worth it. If you can answer in the affirmattive then worry about books and make 2 + 2 books your first choice. Sklansky, Malmuth, Schoonmaker, Feeney...should do. One other thing. It may take more than one session before you can make a decision.
Vince
Vincent Lepore
10-06-2005, 05:33 PM
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I bought into a 2/4 limit with $100 and in 2 hours I doubled my money while the other players kept pulling out their wallets. Maybe beginners luck.
[/ QUOTE ]
Beginners luck or not the fact that you read this book, maybe picked up a few pointers, and won now places it rightly or wrongly in your heart forever or atleast until you gain enough experience to look at it's value objectively.
Vince
well I'll be playing NLHE, and Im bringing in the neighborhood of 200-500, depending on my play leading up to my trip.
I have over 20k hands under my belt, and i do this online an average of 35 hours a week, so yes, I have the desire and determination to become a good poker player.
MrGrob
10-07-2005, 12:10 AM
neither is SSH, or as I refer to it, "The Red Book."
Vincent Lepore
10-07-2005, 01:09 AM
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i do this online an average of 35 hours a week,
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So do you believe that you will make more money playing poker than doing something more creative with your time? Do you know that playing poker is a very small portion of David and Mason's income?
Think twice about spending your life at a poker table or behind a video screen flipping between games. Oh well.. who am I to talk.
Do yourself a favor ....enjoy yourself on your casino outing.
Vince
well, no I really dont envision spending my life behind a poker table... thats why I use online poker to pay for my computer science/computer graphics double major.
outta curiosity, what is your motivation behind ... apparently trying to convince me it's not worth it to play poker?
I just asked a couple simple questions, and this is a very interesting response.
benkahuna
10-07-2005, 08:05 AM
Behemoth,
Everyone's advice here is excellent. SSHE is the [censored].
I started out in NL and have played limit online and in casinos after playing NL.
I think the most important thing for you to do is not even to read SSHE, but to learn how to reconceptualize how you see HE. I think the differences between limit HE and NL HE are bigger than those between PL omaha and NL HE. It's a very different game and you're going to have to get used to suckouts, not being able to protect your hands, and the much lower usefulness of aggression. Until you do and you can handle how this changes the game (and how stupid your opponents will be), I'll bet you'll have a rough time at limit.
But, maybe I'm just speaking to my own experience. I've been playing 6-12 limit lately at a local cardroom and have also played 3-6 at a number of cardrooms. If you play around these limits you'll find that people play consistently poorly and will often call you down when you're obviously strong, not be surprised when you've flopped a set and river a boat, yet still complain about it.
Play like you expect to get called on the flop with any pair and have people try to hit 2 pair even as late as the river.
SSHE is awesome, but you need time to do a few things:
1. Practice the theory.
2. Get used to the different environment that is live HE (and not just tells--it feels very different).
3. Get used to the differences between limit and NL.
I read WLLH first and played some limit online. I never followed the tightness of the advice in that work. I suspect almost no one does which actually makes it a better work than most people would guess. I think Lee Jones may have considered that most people will play looser than any advice given (because who wants to fold, it's more fun to play!) making it a better work than it initially appears to be. I read SSHE after that and had to adjust a little bit to play more like SSHE recommends (and I think its recommendations are optimal).
Best of luck to you! I wouldn't expect to definitely win at first because it's what you're doing is very different from what you're used to doing. Hope I'm wrong! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
If you're worried about tells, just watch the players on the flop and not the flop. Try not to react to the cards. Just play how you would and take advantage of the superstitions and uncritical thinking of your opponents. They'll tell you what they think about you, often directly.
Betting patterns will generally tell you MUCH more about someone's hands than tells.
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