A few hands, Slow Down? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Augster

10-04-2005, 11:10 PM

I have a few hands I'd like you to look at. Tell me if this is standard or if I'm costing myself money either not value betting enough, or not slowing down enough.

Where would you slow down, if at all, and where would you keep raising? Critique on all streets appreciated.

HAND 1:

No read on the Villian as he had only been around one orbit. UTG+2 was a donk. I mean, who posts in UTG+2?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 (poster) calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 caps, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (21.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23.75 BB

With that much action, I was fearing a set and then the runner runner flush didn't help me feel confident about TPTK.

Hand 2:

Villian plays a LOT of hands. Fortunately for me, he only raises his good ones. Good could be a lot though. Though, I had never seen him 3-bet anyone preflop.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP calls, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, MP folds, Hero caps, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25

So many undercards. Where do you slow down, or don't you?

Hand 3:

This happened to me all 3 times I had KQ in my session last night. An ace flopped. Is this a good line to take? UTG is complete donk limping every hand from everywhere. Was MP in previous post. Villian I have no reads on.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 7 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, ($0.50)UTG folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

Thanks for any help!

benkath1

10-04-2005, 11:26 PM

Hand 1 and 2 look ok to me. hand 3 I might check the turn and fold river UI.

tyler_cracker

10-04-2005, 11:27 PM

Split these up. You're going to get less attention with so many hands in 1 post, and it's a pain to remember which hand is which.

[ QUOTE ]
HAND 1:
Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG+2 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 (poster) calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 caps, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (21.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn. Villain played that well. I don't know how else you could play it. You're almost certainly beat (AA/AT/TT), but i'm not folding getting 22:1 on my crying call.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:

Villian plays a LOT of hands. Fortunately for me, he only raises his good ones. Good could be a lot though. Though, I had never seen him 3-bet anyone preflop.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP calls, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, MP folds, Hero caps, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.25

So many undercards. Where do you slow down, or don't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call down after the flop cap.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3:

This happened to me all 3 times I had KQ in my session last night. An ace flopped. Is this a good line to take? UTG is complete donk limping every hand from everywhere. Was MP in previous post. Villian I have no reads on.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 7 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, ($0.50)UTG folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks fine to me.

Augster

10-05-2005, 12:09 AM

Sorry, I figured I'd put them together as they are essentially the same possible leak in my game. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

In hand 2, I think I like call down after the flop cap as a better line. Even though I'm fairly certain I'm beat, I don't think I can let the ladies go in that pot.

Now here's a question, which of the hands did I win? LOL!

10-05-2005, 09:12 AM

Hand 1:
Since he didn't cap preflop but caps the flop, I'd think he has AQ, AT or TT. It does look like a lot of action postflop with just TP2K, so I'm thinking TT or AT, both which have you beat. I still think you played it ok though, his postflop raise could just as well be to protect his hand. I would maybe slow down on the turn since he caps the flop and then checks, not really surprise a c/r came there. In the end you have to call it down though, because of the odds.

Hand 2:
I think all the action screams an overpair. TT or JJ if you are lucky, KK or AA if you're not. All the action, including betting or raising every street makes me think KK or AA is more likely. I think you're losing this one, but I still think calling it down is ok since people tend to play quite irrationally.

Hand 3:
If villain has an Ace, there's no way you can make him fold him at this limit. Your best bet is that he either paired a deuce and will fold to a turn bet, or that he, like you, has nothing but a draw and will fold to a turn bet. I think checking in the end is ok, since I really doubt he'll lay down a better hand than yours, and he'll only call with a hand that has you beat.

If I have to guess which hand you won, I'd have to guess 2 or 3.

imported_The Vibesman

10-05-2005, 09:47 AM

Hand 2 I might just check/call the turn as well as the river. Other than that these look fine to me.

@bsolute_luck

10-05-2005, 09:58 AM

1. i don't bet that turn. villain typically has a set here. villain has c/r and capped the flop and then checks a 9? what has changed from flop to turn? he's playing goofy.

other hands commented on well by others.

tyler_cracker

10-05-2005, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1. i don't bet that turn. villain typically has a set here. villain has c/r and capped the flop and then checks a 9? what has changed from flop to turn? he's playing goofy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The alternative to betting the turn is checking behind and letting 2 limpers see a free river. Without a read on Villain, i don't see how we can let this happen, since maybe he's just completely irrational, or went nuts on the flop with a gutshot, or maybe his cat ran across the keyboard.

Maybe we should find a fold after the turn check-raise instead?

This is why i said Villain played this hand really well; i have no idea what to do, so i end up calling down, and almost certainly losing.

numeri

10-05-2005, 02:23 PM

Hand 1: Looks fine. I would also fear a set, but UTG+1 played it pretty crappy if so. Why C/R the turn to drive out UTG+2 and/or MP2 if you have a set? A call down is good.

Hand 2: There are an equal number of overpairs below and above you. I just call down after the flop cap, but I don't mind your line. Does anyone just call the 3-bet?

Hand 3: Looks OK. I might just give up after the flop, but I've been told I check/fold too much.

EDIT: Missed that UTG+1 C/R then capped the flop in Hand 1. Checking the turn is much better.

numeri

10-05-2005, 02:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Damn. Villain played that well.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. He'd get more value by just betting the turn and river. He got lucky that UTG+2 called 2 cold on the turn. Usually he'll only get 3BB from us with this play. Betting out the turn and river will get more than that.

@bsolute_luck

10-05-2005, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The alternative to betting the turn is checking behind and letting 2 limpers see a free river. Without a read on Villain, i don't see how we can let this happen, since maybe he's just completely irrational, or went nuts on the flop with a gutshot, or maybe his cat ran across the keyboard.

Maybe we should find a fold after the turn check-raise instead?

This is why i said Villain played this hand really well; i have no idea what to do, so i end up calling down, and almost certainly losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

giving a free card isn't a problem here since the pot is big enough for them to call anyways, so we're not improving our situation by betting here and i think the pot is too big to fold to a tricky c/r. we have great position to fold if the river goes bet, raise, hero folds.