Every Option seems bad

Seat 3: UTG(3000 in chips)
Seat 7: SB (2760 in chips)
Seat 8: BB(3425 in chips)
Seat 9: Button(4315 in chips)
wljd: posts small blind 300
eagleskickas: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [7c 7d]
UTG: folds
Button: folds
SB: raises 1200 to 1800
Hero:?

[MegaBet]

How are there so many chips in play?

The answer to your question is very read dependent. Is the SB an aggressive player who raises a lot of pots? Has he only shown down good hands? What's the buy-in? etc etc. We can't answer this question without further information.

It's a 25 dollar sng on stars. Thay's why there are so many chips in play because stars sngs you get 1500 instead of 1k. The sb has been moderately agressive but he's not the type of guy who would be making a complete bluff in this spot. I don't have that great a read on him because I was 4 tabling and didn't see that many pots he was involved in.

[MegaBet]

Fold then. At the very least you are up against 2 overcards. At worst you are dominated by an overpair that won't fold to a push. If the SB was playing loose, I would push the 7s and expect him to fold.

[beeyjay]

Hes not folding to a push here and you dont want to see a showdown here so i think you have to fold.

[inyaface]

turn one 7 into a 10 and poosh...or just fold...either way
No FE and you should be good enough to steal enough pots to gain EV later.

[ QUOTE ]
If the SB was playing loose, I would push the 7s and expect him to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't this make more sense vs. a tight player?

[Ogre]

fold
calling is horrible
pushing isnt great

[caretaker1]

What's the minimum pushing hand here?

[bigt439]

... fold... seriously...?

he's +1.5% against 22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs... you're telling me the guy isn't pushing at least that? Not to mention you have some very small FE... but seriously, wtf?

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
At the very least you are up against 2 overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a ridiculous statement.

[beeyjay]

with the lack of fe, i think you have to view this as calling a push, like ogre mentioned calling his horrible - what are you gonna do see a flop with a couple overcards and have an easier decision - and with that said I think folding to a push here is really quite easy/correct.

[ QUOTE ]
At the very least you are up against 2 overcards

[/ QUOTE ]

No people do this with 66 55 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 all too often to think like this. I would push and then if he has a higher pocket pair than me, I would suck out a winning set.

Folding isn't that much worse than pushing in my opinion

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
folding to a push here is really quite easy/correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you explain SNGPT saying you gain 1.5% EV how?

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the very least you are up against 2 overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a ridiculous statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok...now tell my why?

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the very least you are up against 2 overcards

[/ QUOTE ]

No people do this with 66 55 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 all too often to think like this. I would push and then if he has a higher pocket pair than me, I would suck out a winning set.

Folding isn't that much worse than pushing in my opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course people do this with 55, 66, A3 etc. I could also list all the other hands they would do this with whereby they have at least 2 overcards to your 7s, but that would take a while.

[Nicholasp27]

please tell me how u got sngpt to tell you +1.5% when there is a bettor in front of you that didn't go all in or put you all in...sngpt doesn't normally support that kind of analysis

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
... fold... seriously...?

he's +1.5% against 22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs... you're telling me the guy isn't pushing at least that? Not to mention you have some very small FE... but seriously, wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a serious leak in your game.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... fold... seriously...?

he's +1.5% against 22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs... you're telling me the guy isn't pushing at least that? Not to mention you have some very small FE... but seriously, wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a serious leak in your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You hurt my head. I thought you had me on ignore, it's really easier that way.

"At the very least you are up against 2 overcards"

That is a ridiculous statement.

"ok...now tell my why?"

"Of course people do this with 55, 66, A3 etc."

Looks like you figured it out yourself.

Now getting back to my serious leak, would you like to tell me how this is a leak given the +1.5% EV SGNPT calculates of calling an allin given the fairly tight range I gave him? As clever as your one sentence responses are, they don't help anyone learn anything if they are correct and they are wrong with an alarmingly high frequency.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
please tell me how u got sngpt to tell you +1.5% when there is a bettor in front of you that didn't go all in or put you all in...sngpt doesn't normally support that kind of analysis

[/ QUOTE ]

No it doesn't, but if you just assume the guy went all-in then you can do the calculation. This probably underestimates your EV a tiny bit because of the tiny FE you have.

[MegaBet]

So when people do this you put them on 55, 66 or A3? That's laughable! How many hands have at least 2 overcards?

AA, AK, AQ, AJ, A10, A9, A8, KK, KQ, KJ, K10, K9, K8, QQ, QJ, Q10, Q9, Q8, JJ, J10, J9, J8, 1010, 109, 108, 99, 98, 88...all EXTREMELY likely from a tightish player (as mentioned by the OP). However you put them on 55, 66, A3!

Sorry to embarrass you like this, but you did kinda ask for it. I took you off ignore because I gave you a second chance to redeem yourself. However, it's obviously clear you are not here for discussion with differing points of view than your own. You're not a good player, so you can rejoin the others who give out bad advice on my ignore list.

[inyaface]

[ QUOTE ]
So when people do this you put them on 55, 66 or A3?

[/ QUOTE ]

No however these hands are definatly in the range. The fact that someone ran this hand through SNG power tools and your compleatly ignoring it shows your lack of a want to improve. Frankly I thought this was a clear fold but after realising how plus EV it could be with the stated range I am starting to reconsider as should you.
Also don't flame someone who probably puts at least as much thought into their posts as anyone else on this fourm.

[bigt439]

Just incredible.

Yeah, let's do the whole ignore thing.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]

Also don't flame someone who probably puts at least as much thought into their posts as anyone else on this fourm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not flaming anyone. Just responding to this "thoughtful" post.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3580944&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1

[pineapple888]

Everyone seems to be voting fold here, but
1.) with huge blinds
2.) no shorty about to go out
3.) and having the SB covered by enough that you'll have at least some chance if you lose

I think you have to shove it in.

But how exactly did he raise 1200 to 1800 from SB?

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]

But how exactly did he raise 1200 to 1800 from SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

He has to automatically call the 300 to equal the BB (600). Then he raises the 1200 to get to 1800.

[runner4life7]

I have to agree fully with bigt here and I think megabet is missing the point completely. He isnt saying that he always has 55,66, A3, but that he can. 77 is a fav over overcards not an underdog, blinds are big, you have more than he does. Would you do 8s, 9s, or 10s here? or just play tight to blind level 10,000/20,000.

With no reads I would Push the 7’s.

From what I have read, considering there is no really small stack, when folded to the SB (with the BB or the SB with stacks less or equal to 10 big blinds) it is correct for the SB to push any 2. I wouldn’t put the small blind on any 2 in a $25 sit’n’go.

Again this is with no reads. The tightest range I can put SB on is A-6 o, A-2s, any pair, any 2 10 or higher, K-8 ‘s Q-9’s. I believe 7’s are little better then 50% against this range (I’m at work and do not have my poker tools). So with the money already in the pot, the blinds this high and a little bit of folding equity. I push.

This may be a leak of mine so feel free to jump all over this if you feel I am wrong. We are all here to learn /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[UMTerp]

I'm not saying that it's correct to play here, but if you do so, I think calling is superior to pushing. It's safe to say that 98%+ of opponents will call a preflop push.

If he pushes the flop (or any other street), put the rest of your chips in no matter what.

If he checks for some reason, you can either check it down and hopefully preserve some chips and precious FE (he doesn't want to bust either), or you can push your last 1K if checked to on the flop and the board looks to be in your favor. It's not likely, but a really bad opponent could find a fold depending on the board.

You're not losing anything by calling instead of pushing preflop.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying that it's correct to play here, but if you do so, I think calling is superior to pushing. It's safe to say that 98%+ of opponents will call a preflop push.

If he pushes the flop (or any other street), put the rest of your chips in no matter what.

If he checks for some reason, you can either check it down and hopefully preserve some chips and precious FE (he doesn't want to bust either), or you can push your last 1K if checked to on the flop and the board looks to be in your favor. It's not likely, but a really bad opponent could find a fold depending on the board.

You're not losing anything by calling instead of pushing preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not quite as ready to call on any flop, but I like this choice best. I just cant believe it took a UM guy to come up with it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Im comin for ya at the 60s terp...6 more months, enjoy them.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to agree fully with bigt here and I think megabet is missing the point completely. He isnt saying that he always has 55,66, A3, but that he can. 77 is a fav over overcards not an underdog, blinds are big, you have more than he does. Would you do 8s, 9s, or 10s here? or just play tight to blind level 10,000/20,000.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I'm missing anything here. I accept that he CAN have hands like 55, A3 (I even said so in a previous post). 9s or above I would probably call because it dramatically cuts down the number of overcards villain can have. The point I am trying to make is that I am confident of my ability to make the money here, and gambling with 7s I just wouldn't do in this situation, unless I read villain as a habitual blind stealer, which he doesn't seem to be according to the OP. If some of you aren't so confident about your play and want to gamble with this hand, then it makes sense. I am purely going by what I would do. My opinion. It's not gospel. Never said it was. At least I am explaining my point of view rather than completely dismissing it by saying "this is ridiculous".

[kyro]

I'm not folding a midpair when my opponent has 4.5BB. That's just silly.

Wow i'm really suprised that this post got so much feedback. I ended up folding because I figured that chances were I was racing or worse. Also i figured it be a better play to push any 2 next hand if folded to me. I know it's results based so it doesn't really matter but I ended up winning the sng. Thanks alot for the feedback

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow i'm really suprised that this post got so much feedback. I ended up folding because I figured that chances were I was racing or worse. Also i figured it be a better play to push any 2 next hand if folded to me. I know it's results based so it doesn't really matter but I ended up winning the sng. Thanks alot for the feedback

[/ QUOTE ]

Good play. It's always best to avoid these kinds of races if you're confident in your own ability. Nice win.

[KingDan]

FWIW I instapush and I think folding sucks.

Megabet, I don't think you realize how +ev calling against two overcards is.

[pineapple888]

Geez, this is the same old debate.

+EV now, or wait because "I'm such a good player I can get a better spot later."

I'm in the first camp, but whatever.

Let's just let it go.

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
Megabet, I don't think you realize how +ev calling against two overcards is.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not +ev at all.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Megabet, I don't think you realize how +ev calling against two overcards is.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not +ev at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that depends on if I did these ICM numbers correctly and if you believe them:

Fold
3000
4315
2825 (you)
3360

EV Fold: .2238


Call/win
3000
4315
6185 (you)

EV Call/win: .3721


Call/lose
3000
4315
5650
535 (you)

EV Call/lose: .0598

EV Call/race 55:45 in your favor: 0.2316


EDIT: Not that -I- believe these numbers, I don't think you have as much equity as it suggests when you call and lose. If you get the newest version of SNGPT you can set it up to discount your EV some for the fact that you post half of your stack in the SB. I didn't do that because I am at school and did these numbers by hand.

[KingDan]

I was thinking marginally +ev on flips (which might be closer than expected as I hadn't ran any numbers),which he talked about like they were the end of the world.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I instapush and I think folding sucks.

Megabet, I don't think you realize how +ev calling against two overcards is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe +cEV, but definitely -$EV.