HULA ML Cleanup

[timprov]

All right, it's time for some authority here, and fortunately Climber was willing to hand me some. We're going to get the regular season done by the end of the weekend.

Missing matches from Weeks 1-5 will be played by the end of the day Friday or forfeited to the player I feel made the most effort. Missing matches from Week 6 will be played by the end of the day Sunday. Meaningless matches which are unplayed by that time will be recorded as draws; forfeiture of matches that matter will be done at my discretion. PMs will be going out shortly to captains and players missing matches.

Week 6 reporting should still go in the Week 6 thread. Reporting for matches from previous weeks should go here.

As an addendum, let me express my appreciation for teams bds and raisins, both of which have played all of their matches.

[timprov]

Crrrrrap.

Stealthcow essentially says "fuggit" for his entire team. This is obviously problematic. If someone has an elegant solution to this, please, let me know.

My impulse here is to let the other outstanding matches for TMFS9 and Baronzeus play out, in hopes of identifying just how much needs to be done to make this up. I don't think it would be fair to just forfeit Stealthcow in Weeks 5 and 6. So if we can find a way to get billyjex/Milo resolved, and if Baron can play his Week 6 match ASAP, that would be good.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
if Baron can play his Week 6 match ASAP, that would be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apparently missed this one. This makes it somewhat simpler.

[timprov]

Here are the current standings as I have them:

ihardlyknowher 4-1 (16-10)
Goofball 4-1 (13-13)
bds 4-2 (15-15)
raisins 4-2 (15-15)
dave44 2-2 (16-11)
TMFS9 2-2 (10-12)
Baronzeus 2-3
Climber 2-3
WiteKnite 0-4
Stealthcow forfeit

Ihardlyknowher has clinched a playoff spot. Dave44 and TMFS9 are both longshots but still mathematically alive.

[raisins]

[ QUOTE ]
All right, it's time for some authority here, and fortunately Climber was willing to hand me some. We're going to get the regular season done by the end of the weekend.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. And a thank you to bds as well for keeping the pressure on our commissioners in absentia.

raisins

[Perseus]

Can you describe how the playoffs work in one easy to read paragraph

[timprov]

The team in first place will play the team in fourth place. The team in second place will play the team in third place. The winners of these two matches will play each other for the title. The losers of these two matches will play each other for third.

[Perseus]

And the payouts will be...

[timprov]

From memory, the payout structure is 50/30/20.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
From memory, the payout structure is 50/30/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. With 140% share to team captains and 90% shares to each team's players.

[Argus]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
From memory, the payout structure is 50/30/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. With 140% share to team captains and 90% shares to each team's players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Some of the captains really worked for that extra share too.

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are the current standings as I have them:

ihardlyknowher 4-1 (16-10)
Goofball 4-1 (13-13)
bds 4-2 (15-15)
raisins 4-2 (15-15)
dave44 2-2 (16-11)
TMFS9 2-2 (10-12)
Baronzeus 2-3
Climber 2-3
WiteKnite 0-4
Stealthcow forfeit

Ihardlyknowher has clinched a playoff spot. Dave44 and TMFS9 are both longshots but still mathematically alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that we are 4-1 is pretty amazing considering that 3 of our 4 victories were achieved without our absent 5th teammate.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here are the current standings as I have them:

ihardlyknowher 4-1 (16-10)
Goofball 4-1 (13-13)
bds 4-2 (15-15)
raisins 4-2 (15-15)
dave44 2-2 (16-11)
TMFS9 2-2 (10-12)
Baronzeus 2-3
Climber 2-3
WiteKnite 0-4
Stealthcow forfeit

Ihardlyknowher has clinched a playoff spot. Dave44 and TMFS9 are both longshots but still mathematically alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that we are 4-1 is pretty amazing considering that 3 of our 4 victories were achieved without our absent 5th teammate.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because team ihardlyknowher rocks /images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks, team, for taking us to the playoffs.

Worth saying that one of our weeks is still outstanding at 2-2. Last I heard was that GT1T was going to get in contact with Bob L a couple days ago...don't know if he did.

[GetThere1Time]

Last I heard he had an emergency to take care of at home. I don't know when or if I'm going to get to play him by Fri but if all else fails I can play a sub.

[Bob L]

Bob L defeated Getthere1time in a long match.I forgot which week this is from.

[arkady]

we still have an oustanding match that could make our record 3-3 (between baron and drgutshot).

since their team forfeited, do we move up in rank?

[Victor]

so is the season over?

i wanna play more.

[bottomset]

go Bob
go Alobar(is he still gonna play this out?)

[BigEndian]

I fell out of the loop for HULA. Is there still a seperate website for tracking the season and getting involved with a team?

- Jim

[goofball]

scotch 78 defeated me after a long match that involved blind doubling.

[billyjex]

awhile ago i gave milo my AIM name and told him we had to get it done, and that was the last i heard from him.

[MicroBob]

Milo contacted me this week and we arranged to play our match on thursday night (he said he was available after 9:30 central-time)...but he was a no show (and no further response).


I PM'ed him again on Friday and said I was around all day and whenever he was avilable would be great.
No response.


I think we are close to the point where we can just claim a forfeit and move on.
I'm not sure of course...but I doubt that he would mind that much either.


People get busy. no biggie.

milo - if you still want to play it, let me know.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
scotch 78 defeated me after a long match that involved blind doubling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you played like 2weeks ago(but for week6) and won?? could be losing my mind

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
scotch 78 defeated me after a long match that involved blind doubling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought you played like 2weeks ago(but for week6) and won?? could be losing my mind

[/ QUOTE ]

It was an old match and our team already won that week (of course). We just need wins/forfeits from Alobar and Microbob.

I'm in charge of getting hold of Alobar's opponenet for this week since he is banned but i still haven't heard anything at all. I'm taking responsibility for making his 'reasonable efforts' to get the match played.

[MrFeelNothin]

i've got the playoff itch....

[timprov]

I just woke up, and was going to put in a session at Multi. Guess I'll do some forfeits here instead.

The easy ones: rory/crazygoose for Weeks 1 and 4 are forfeited, GetThere1Time for Weeks 1,2, and 4 are forfeited. (Yes, that makes one match a double loss. So?) The three Baronzeus/Stealthcow matches from Week 5 go to Baronzeus.

What's left is Billyjex/Milo. I need to look through the threads before making a decision on that one.

Week 6 games have a couple days to get played yet.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]
awhile ago i gave milo my AIM name and told him we had to get it done, and that was the last i heard from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been hearing this from both sides. Since Milo posted he couldn't get in touch in the original Week 3 thread, WiteKnite has posted the same several times, and you haven't replied to any of the previous callings out about this match, and we attempted a replacement and your replacement didn't show up either, I'm awarding the win to Milo.

[timprov]

I went ahead and forfeited Stealthcow's team for Week 6 as well.

Current Standings:

goofball 4-1 (14-14)
ihardlyknowher 4-2 (16-14)
raisins 4-2 (15-15)
bds 4-2 (15-15)
dave44 3-2 (17-11)
Baronzeus 3-3
TMFS9 3-3
Climber 2-3
WiteKnite 1-4
Stealthcow forfeit

[climber]

Dave44 and I have both been busy. I sent the first PM maybe 8+ days into the week and set a time--we both forgot about it. He sent the next one--we've both been pretty swamped and haven't got it together yet. I'm out of town this weekend so I doubt its gonna get played by Sunday night.

I'd say its about a draw at this point. I'll look for him on AIM one or two more times though if I get free.

[ihardlyknowher]

HULA ML has now been split into two groups. The first group will consist of all the bad players, who will play against the commissioners' teams. Those players will also be allowed to make exciting proposition bets against the commissioners, since playing a single HU match is boring.

The second group will consist of all the good players, and the teams that cash will only receive 70% of the prize pool. Actually, since we all violated the terms of HULA ML by not finishing our matches on time, the commissioners have decided to freeze all the prize money and keep it for themselves. Enjoy!

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
Enjoy!

[/ QUOTE ]

What is this...commissioners' week?! Suddenly they're all so generous, and full of all kinds of great ideas!

[goofball]

I pmed kiddo and he read it but didn't respond. I'm not sure what more can be done unless his captain wants to suggest an alternate.

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
awhile ago i gave milo my AIM name and told him we had to get it done, and that was the last i heard from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been hearing this from both sides. Since Milo posted he couldn't get in touch in the original Week 3 thread, WiteKnite has posted the same several times, and you haven't replied to any of the previous callings out about this match, and we attempted a replacement and your replacement didn't show up either, I'm awarding the win to Milo.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh wow that is complete bullshit.

i guess milo said [censored] the PM where I gave him my AIM name?

i never got a response after that

i'm not saying i coulnd't have done more but to award the win to him just sucks. if was just as much his fault as mine. if he wants to play, we can play tomorrow. but then again, he never im'ed me, so i guess not.

[MicroBob]

FWIW -
I have PM'ed Timprov to claim a forfeit win over milo in our week 6 match.

we had arranged to play last week on Thurs but he was a no-show. And he did not respond to my 3 follow-up PM's on Thu, Fri and Sat.


I didn't hear back yet on my PM to Timpov either so am mentioning it here in case it didn't go through for some reason.

[kiddo]

ah, srry, this eurobet thing exploded in my face... forgot about it... I PMed u know, lets play soon

[Stack]

Are we gonna get this going guys?

[MicroBob]

i'm curious as well.

[MrFeelNothin]

it seems to me that there is just one match between dave44(still eligible for playoffs?) and someone else holding us back. otherwise the playoff field is set, so play the frickn match. it was supposed to be done a month ago, some arrangement should have been made for a sub if the two players in question truly can't get together.

[MicroBob]

I disagree regarding playing the match.
There has been plenty of time...and lets face it, some people are obviously kinda blowing this off (which is no big deal imo...we just have to be realistic about this).

It should either be awarded to one party or the other (if there is reason to do so) or be declared a draw or a double-forfeit.

[climber]

dave and I are scheduled to play at 10 or 11 am tomorrow morning.

sorry guys,
climber

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree regarding playing the match.
There has been plenty of time...and lets face it, some people are obviously kinda blowing this off (which is no big deal imo...we just have to be realistic about this).

It should either be awarded to one party or the other (if there is reason to do so) or be declared a draw or a double-forfeit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Timprov should settle this one, so we can move on.

[MicroBob]

I agree.

Even though Climber and Dave are set to play tomorrow and obviously have good intentions I think we should abide by the previously stated deadline of last Friday to complete all of the previous week's matches.

I probably sound kind of hard-line or nit-picking about such a silly thing as HULA ML...but without doing so then we get ourselves into big delays like we have now.


I also have no idea if I have been awarded a forfeit victory of Bigbaitsm (milo) but I'm assuming that I probably have.


No offense meant for those who have had internet or scheduling difficulties or just gotten a bit lazy on a match or two.

I realize that I have no life and other people do.

Also no offense to league's commisioners/supervisors who I think are doing a fine job (and whom I assume also have lives).

I'm not pointing any fingers.
Just expressing my opinion on how best to proceed at this point.

Looking forward to the playoffs...and to another season of this sometime.

[goofball]

Alobar was defeated by kiddo rendering bob's match pointless.

We know our teams record and we're ready for the playoffs. Let's forfeit or cancel the rest of the matches as necesary and do it.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
Alobar was defeated by kiddo rendering bob's match pointless.

We know our teams record and we're ready for the playoffs. Let's forfeit or cancel the rest of the matches as necesary and do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great! Time for timprov to chime in.

[MicroBob]

why is it that the words 'bob' and 'pointless' seem to be so frequently used together?

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
Alobar was defeated by kiddo rendering bob's match pointless.

We know our teams record and we're ready for the playoffs. Let's forfeit or cancel the rest of the matches as necesary and do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

so is alobar done for good. id like to bring him back. [censored] oot anyway.....they get what they deserve.

[cookie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alobar was defeated by kiddo rendering bob's match pointless.

We know our teams record and we're ready for the playoffs. Let's forfeit or cancel the rest of the matches as necesary and do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

so is alobar done for good. id like to bring him back. [censored] oot anyway.....they get what they deserve.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I might have read that alobar is free the 15. in a post by Mat, but Im not sure...

[climber]

Sorry team forfeit goes to Dave44. I've just got too much going on in life right now and we had it scheduled but I couldn't get it done.

--climber

P.S. Sorry to hold everyone up.

[dave44]

I've been available the entire time to play the final match. Looks like Climber has forfeited so that should give my team a 4-2 record and a playoff birth, correct?

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been available the entire time to play the final match.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please dont say stuff like this that isn't true. Yes you are more availalbe than me now and no i can't play so yes i forfeit as already stated in the thread.

Don't act like the 3 week delay is all my fault when I took first initiative to try to schedule the match 8 days into the "week" and then we both forgot.

[dave44]

I had no intention of making it sound like our inability to get the match done was your fault. I certainly was not available at all times. I was just trying to convey that the reason the match isn't done is not because I have forgotten or given up on HULA. My apologies.

[MrFeelNothin]

damn i went out of town for four days and for some reason expected things to be solved by the time i came back. ill say it one more time........

ITS PLAYOFF SEASON BABEE!!!

[Stack]

What happened to timprov? Anyone knows?

[bds]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to timprov? Anyone knows?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea. I've sent him a couple of emails with no response. Frankly, I'm concerned because this is not like him at all.

For the record, I'm just not available to do anything in terms of HULA for the next two weeks. Major cutover happening at work that requires every minute of my time. I knew this time commitment was scheduled at work, but never expected HULA to run this long and conflict.

[Fianchetto]

I'd love to do the playoff and I think we should. But if we can't get this figured out or at least scheduled in the next week or two, maybe the backup plan should just be to distribute the prize pool to the top 3-4 teams.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love to do the playoff and I think we should. But if we can't get this figured out or at least scheduled in the next week or two, maybe the backup plan should just be to distribute the prize pool to the top 3-4 teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather play, but it looks like few people are showing interest in getting this done, so I agree with you.

I think the captains of the teams who made it to the playoffs should show up and figure something out.

C'mon captains!

[goofball]

my team is ready fro the playoffs. who else has qualified? Let's just figure out who each of us is playing and get it done.

My teams overall record is 4-2, let's get the other captains to post their records and we can figure out who should play who in teh playoffs.

[Perseus]

BDS, raisins, and Ihardlyknowher and the other teams.

EDIT: We can just do it that everyone still in gets 125 bucks, or the players each get 110 and the captains the extra %...but I agree that we just split this up and move on with life.

[bds]

I am a captain, and my preference would be to play it out. BUT, I am not able to function as a captain or a player for the balance of this month due to a major work project that is keeping me working round the clock. Please do not penalize my team for this in any way. I've been "nagging" this process along for a very long time - and have been more than available up to now to do whatever needed to be done. So, within those parameters, the other captains have my ok to hammer this out. Perseus - if you'd like to fill in as spokesperson from our team (or anyone else available) that would be fine. I could hardly anticipate that this would drag, and drag, and drag till now.

[MicroBob]

i find absolutely no reason why we shouldn't play the playoffs just because Timprov is suddenly MIA.
(I don't remember...but I think somebody else here collected the money for this, correct??)


We know what the records are and we know who the teams are.

Those with conflicts can have one of their team-members play 2 different matches or can have some other sub or something (whatever is agreed upon).


I'm interested. I think others are interested.
If Timprov isn't here then I don't see why that means that everyone else suddenly lost interest.


If you guys really don't want to play it then that's fine too.
I just don't see the reasoning behind that.

[bds]

I personally object to waiting, and waiting, and waiting all this time and all the weeks before that drug out longer than they should and NOW having the matches played while I'm unavailable. Just my 2 cents. I was excited about the opportunity to work on these skills. The experience has been disappointing.

[Bob L]

I was under the impression that Dave44s team got in the playoffs due to the makeup matches in this thread...

[bottomset]

isn't there 5 4-2 teams??

[MicroBob]

yeah. i don't blame you on this and don't have a better solution to offer.

obviously this whole thing got delayed MUCH longer than it needed to....and there's little doubt in my mind that if we have another one that we should just ban ALL delays no matter what the situation.

It gets drawn or decided on way or the other and we move on to the next week.


For the playoffs, we are either going to have them or we aren't.
If we are going to have them then I suggest we have them as quickly as possible and do the best we can with it.

[raisins]

Here's my take.

First, it appears Timprov has given up on this, as he has posts on 2+2 since his last post in this thread.

I think there are 5 teams with 4-2 records.

Since bds has been the strongest voice in keeping this tournament on track and her team qualified it sucks to hold playoffs where she wouldn't be able to participate. On the other hand, I don't want to wait two weeks and then start the playoffs. This has gone on long enough.

My preference is to split up the prize money between the 5 teams, captains take 140% team members 90% of a 1/5th share of their team's prize money.

I would like to participate in something like this in the future but the administration needs to be much stricter, verging on the draconian. I think the use of read receipts should be a part of the process and the commissioners should make rulings about when a substitute needs to be called in. But, I guess all of that is pretty irrelevant right now.

raisins

[bds]

I really don't want to be the grumpy person who screws up the end of this. I don't want to be the person who prevents the playoffs. If the other captains want to do playoffs, and if someone else from my team is able to stand in until I can give this some time, then I can live with that. I'm just cranky cause too much too do, and too little time- leaving no time for poker, which actually generates more income - the irony:(

I agree 100% that we need stronger administration in the future. Frankly, I'm concerned about timprov, because it is not like him to "disappear" like this. He voluntarily kept the records, etc. Does anyone know Tim? I'd like to know if he's ok, etc.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
and her team qualified it sucks to hold playoffs where she wouldn't be able to participate.

[/ QUOTE ]



not having the playoffs does not solve the problem of bds being unable to participate in them.
obviously, bds still would not get to play in the playoffs if we didn't have them.

So really...not holding them would just be saying "well...bds can't play in them. so lets just not have them in bds's honor."


FWIW - I'm playing in the Ireland EPT qualifier this Saturday. The tournament would be next weekend. If I somehow won the package then I would likely be missing the playoffs as well.
I don't think that (or any other situation where I would be unavailable for them) should prevent everyone else from having the playoffs.
I would just say 'oh well...guess i'm out. have fun without me.'

so obviously i vote for still keeping the playoffs.
but whatever everyone else decides is fine with me.

[goofball]

I don't think it was unreasonable of you to think this would be finished by now. I think sine we have matches still unplayed (i believe) and 5 teams with the same record (if that's true) then we should just split up the prize pool accordingly. It sucks not to get to do the playoffs but it seems like it will be logistically pretty tough with now 3 admins absentee.

[bds]

Bob,

You are right, I was just feeling sorry for myself (too much to do, can't do what I'd love to do, poor me, etc. Not a very flattering place to be and I'm pulling myself out of it - so excuse me please.) And my son could (I think) substitute for me, cause it appears that timprov is also unavailable. That is if noone would mind the substitution and he's agreeable.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it was unreasonable of you to think this would be finished by now. I think sine we have matches still unplayed (i believe) and 5 teams with the same record (if that's true) then we should just split up the prize pool accordingly. It sucks not to get to do the playoffs but it seems like it will be logistically pretty tough with now 3 admins absentee.

[/ QUOTE ]


This was the previous standing. goofball and dave 44 winning makes everyone 4-2.

goofball 4-1 (14-14)
ihardlyknowher 4-2 (16-14)
raisins 4-2 (15-15)
bds 4-2 (15-15)
dave44 3-2 (17-11)

Dave44 and ihardlyknowher are a lock for the playoffs. raisins and bds have played all their matches, so no update there.

goofball: can you please tell us your win-loss scores as (x-y) and tell us what matches have been played by your team that brought you from (14-14) to (x-y)?

If we can figure this out, as Microbob said, there is no reason to split the money now. We should start the playoffs and finish it on schedule, with strict rules.

If we can't, well, there is no reason to hold this up any longer, and we should then split the money now.

[Perseus]

bds,

I can fill in to be spokesperson, no problem. I'll be around the next few weeks besides a few day trips for the smaller tournies of the Foxwoods WPT event.

What I want to know is whether anyone had a playoff schedule in the first place? It might have been posted before and I missed it, but it would be a place to start to see how long it would last if we did do it.

Once we know that I think we should just take a vote between all the remaining members of teams left, not just captains. We can have this done 48 hours from now I believe.

So, what we need to know now is...

1. Do we have four or five teams?

2. What is the playoff format?

[MicroBob]

I believe we had kinda/sorta decided on 1 v. 4 and 2 v. 3 (via tie-breaks or whatever) and then championship match and 3rd place match.

Payout would be 50/30/20.

If we decide to let all 5 teams in then, based on tie-break, we could have 4 v. 5 in a play-in game.

[raisins]

I wasn't looking to portray you as grumpy. My preference is to end this without playoffs. I don't believe that you not being able to participate is sufficient reason not to have the playoffs but I think it is worth pointing out.

I'm not sure what you're concern over Timprov is. I don't think he's dead or grievously injured considering he last posted on 10/20/05 7:16 pm.

That being said it looks like people want to have playoffs. If qualification comes down to me and bds with equivalent team and match records then my team beat hers in the last week of the season and I think that is the tiebreaker.

regards,

raisins

[wonkadaddy]

i done't really care, but a decision should be made one way or the other. i would say in future HULA's a winner should be decided for every match at the end of the week regardless (or a double forfeit declared) to prevent this BS. it is a little goofy that some 4-2 teams are now there because of forfeits, and thus rewarded for not being responsible and forcing the play of matches.

funny, in the regular HULA evryone seemed to hate Evan for being a nazi, but in HULA ML we suffered from having overly soft, compensating leadership. personally i don't care if we have playoffs or divide up the prize pool. i've had some good heads up experience and consider the experience a positive. whatver the decision is it should be decided shortly.

timprov, when you decided to take this under your wing it became your thing. make a decision now. some folks may be reluctant, but i think i speak for all when i say we'll all accept it, and it needs to be done now. thanks

[timprov]

My apologies to everyone. My health has gone to shambles and taken everything else with it, and I really blew it here.

As far as I'm concerned, chopping it up and being done with seems like a fine idea.

[bds]

[ QUOTE ]
My apologies to everyone. My health has gone to shambles and taken everything else with it, and I really blew it here.

As far as I'm concerned, chopping it up and being done with seems like a fine idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tim - I'm so sorry to hear you haven't been well. I couldn't think of any other reason for your silence. Hope it is nothing too serious.

[Argus]

I say chop it. This whole thing was disorganised from the start. While I enjoyed the headsup practice it gave, and agreed with the prize as some incentive, there was no framework for this event. Playoffs weren't even mentioned in the original thread (though they weren't ruled out either). With one team completely giving up, I think it jeopordises the process, potentially putting a team in the money simply because they had the good fortune to be matched against busy or lazy opponents.

[wonkadaddy]

so i'm assuming the chop will be between the 4 win teams.

ihardlyknowher 4-1
Goofball 4-1
bds 4-2
raisins 4-2
dave44 4-2

this means each captain should receive a share of $140 and each team member a share of $90
(140*5) +(90*20) = $2500, the prize pool.

also, it might be easier for witenite and climber to not have to make 25 separate transfer, so i'd suggest they transfer the full team share to each captain ($500) and have the captains divide it from there. sound good all?

[MicroBob]

i think that's a reasonable solution.

it seems most people feel that it is too much of a hassle to have playoffs...and I agree that it is a bit unfair to have one team possibly win more money just because another team is virtually MIA.


Hope that Tim is feeling better.

[MrFeelNothin]

This is really lame. I mean really really lame. I can't emphasize enough the lameness of this proposed "solution". Honestly how difficult is it to play two one hour heads-up matches over the next two weeks, I sincerely doubt that there is a single person out there that couldn't make that committment. Lets bring this to its proper conclusion, I don't want to have a sour taste in my mouth every time I remember the disorganized [censored]-show that this turned into.

[bds]

[ QUOTE ]
This is really lame. I mean really really lame. I can't emphasize enough the lameness of this proposed "solution". Honestly how difficult is it to play two one hour heads-up matches over the next two weeks, I sincerely doubt that there is a single person out there that couldn't make that committment. Lets bring this to its proper conclusion, I don't want to have a sour taste in my mouth every time I remember the disorganized [censored]-show that this turned into.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm ok with either of the solutions proposed, but please don't try to judge whether I can carve out a couple of hours over the next 2 weeks. I've got a substitute lined up, but I'm personally not able to do it.

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is really lame. I mean really really lame. I can't emphasize enough the lameness of this proposed "solution". Honestly how difficult is it to play two one hour heads-up matches over the next two weeks, I sincerely doubt that there is a single person out there that couldn't make that committment. Lets bring this to its proper conclusion, I don't want to have a sour taste in my mouth every time I remember the disorganized [censored]-show that this turned into.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm ok with either of the solutions proposed, but please don't try to judge whether I can carve out a couple of hours over the next 2 weeks. I've got a substitute lined up, but I'm personally not able to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've made 7 posts in this thread in the last 28 hours. I get it, you don't want to play.

[bds]

Making a post takes less than a minute &amp; can do it right while I'm working - playing takes a chunk of time - big difference.

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
Making a post takes less than a minute &amp; can do it right while I'm working - playing takes a chunk of time - big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its pretty obvious that if you really had zero time to play a HU match you wouldn't be on this website. If you are posting on this website there are a million other small distractors as well. You arent working straight 6 am to midnight so how hard it would be to take an hour off twice in the next two (well probabably more) weeks.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I just want to be able to conclude this in the proper way, with playoffs and a champion.

[raisins]

Sorry, if it leaves a bad taste in your mouth but many of us are tired of this league dragging on and are ready for it to end. Again, my preference is to chop up the prize pool.

By the way, in arguing with bds you are trying to get her to go directly against her own best interest. As I pointed out upthread her team is tied with mine in team victories and match victories. The match records are 15-15, no other team at 4-2 has a worse record. My team and hers played in the final week, my team won. If we go to the playoffs, her team is out. By the way, forfeits played no small role in other teams having a superior match record to mine and hers.

If her options are for a 5 way chop of the money or a 4 team playoff, how do you think she, and her team, is going to vote?

regards,

raisins

[MicroBob]

I'm mostly with MrFeelNothin that it's kind of silly to just say "OMG. It's so pointless. Lets just end it."

It's not that tough to arrange the matches.

I disagree though with his take on bds.
If anyone can't play then sobeit. That's how it goes.

We should clearly have been much harsher on matches that weren't getting played throughout the season instead of letting the delats go.

If someone is out of town and they can't play it...then they forfeit after a certain deadline. Doesn't matter if they are sick or dead or in a car-crash or have other job commitments or are out of town or what.
It's only HULA....a forfeit isn't the worst thing in the world.

However, holding everything up to try to accomodate every single player's schedule clearly IS a bad idea.
It just doesn't make sense.

In other words, in order to maintain a smooth-running season everyone just has to accept that there will be forfeits involved. Because EVERY week there will likely be SOMEBODY who is unable to play or just gets lazy.




Anyway - I'm tangenting again.
If we want to cancel it I can live with it.
I just don't see any pressing reason why we should (since most of us are still present and accounted for) or why so many are advocating that course.
But again, I can live with it.

[MrFeelNothin]

Raisins, I agree with everything you said except the first two sentences. Of course she wants to chop it up but that doesn't make "being busy" a legitimate argument.

By the way, team ihardlyknowher did not benefit from a single forfeit victory.

[wonkadaddy]

let's just end this folks. i wouldn't be surprised if some folks have died from age-related causes since the last HULAML week concluded.

i also don't feel there's anyone in place to fairly determine the last playoff spot. does dave's team get the spot over BDS's because of somewhat arbitrary forfeits applied at the last second? -- forfeits that weren't instituted in similar situations earlier in the HULAML season. are the team records even correct?

also, i personally feel like implications that BDS's position stems from her own self-interest are incorrect and out-of-line. she's consistently been one of the strongest voices to run this thing in an honorable, and efficient manner. we've played a couple of times at 10-20/15-30 so i doubt the money is that significant to her.

so let's be done with this. sum it up as a good, albeit imperfect experience and implement changes so it runs even better next time. my reasons for ending it now are below

1. who decides who gets the last playoff spot?
2. do we institute new rules for the playoffs regarding forfeits, timelines, etc? who comes up w/these rules and enforces them?
3. have we lost some players/interest as things have lagged over the past 2 months? do we have any confidence that we can round up all the team members to complete this? i have no desire to do the playoffs over the next 2 months.

figuring out the above sounds like a pain in the a$$ w/no structure in place.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
My apologies to everyone. My health has gone to shambles and taken everything else with it, and I really blew it here.

As far as I'm concerned, chopping it up and being done with seems like a fine idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you feel better.

Are you still willing to see this through, what ever the decision is?

If yes, I think that you should be the one making the decision between playing it though, or chopping up right now.

Personally, I think that we should play it. So what if a team was forfeit? So what if some player were forfeit? I don't want to be harsh, but had they made an effort to schedule their matches, they wouldn't be forfeit.

So what if a team benefited from that? (we didn't, by the way)That's the competition, that's the fun, that's life.

4 teams are going to the playoffs, and will play, and anyone who doesn't play will be forfeit, at your discretion.

But again, what ever decision you make, I'll accept, and I think everyone should accept, because we all agreed that you take over.

What do you think?

[bds]

thanks wonk for the kinds words. We can end it however the majority see fit, and I won't have a complaint. The only point I was trying to make was that many of the rest of the participants have been silent and remiss for weeks and weeks and weeks - and it just struck me as some kind of wierd poker god irony that all of a sudden when I'm swamped at work, it's gonna revive. Kind of like it feels when you are running bad and having river after river go against you. That's all I was saying. For me, it's not about the money. It was about putting together a team and then doing the best we could against other good players - that was the fun of it. I'm not intending to keep winnings anyway - that's "found money" and the kind of thing I generally target for donation. Maybe as a group we should just donate the entire prize pool to a worthwhile charity. Heaven knows many people in this world in much worse shape than I suspect most of us are - we are all lucky - we can play poker for fun and (hopefully) make money while we're at it. Good night.

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]

But again, what ever decision you make, I'll accept, and I think everyone should accept, because we all agreed that you take over.

What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my analysis of the situation:

We have five teams, and the only one that's assured of being in the top 4 via the rules is ihardlyknowher's.

-- Goofball/dave44 are both in positions where if we finish out with forfeits they would win the tiebreakers by virtue of a scheduling hiccup, being scheduled against teams not in competition on Week 6 while raisins/bds were not. I don't like this.

-- raisins/bds: despite raisins' post, there's no support in the rules for deciding this based on head-to-head, and I think there's a good reason not to: not everyone played head-to-head.

That adds up to having to do tiebreaker matches, because there was no support for breaking tiebreaker ties in the original rules. That could add as much as two extra "weeks" to this thing before going to the playoffs.

In addition, at least one player potentially in the playoffs (and one of the missing Week 6 matches) has been banned.

Given all this, I'm in favor of a chop. For those who really want playoffs, you always have the option of matching up individually to play for part or all of your payout.

If this sort of thing is done again, I recommend finding a structure that lets eliminated teams wander off without screwing it up for everyone else. It would also be a good idea to be more organized from the start.

[Perseus]

Before you go criticizing people for being busy, you should know that bds, as a captain, was absolutely great. She has sent numerous emails to her team with information on improving heads up play. She also sent out emails every week with standings/updates and information on the team we were scheduled to play (such as contact information).

Before she was swamped at work she would send e-mails offering to practice with people on the team so we could improve our chances to win.

To top it off, she offered to give back the extra money she would make as being a captain if we did win money. This offer wasn't prompted by anything in particular.

While I normally would agree with you with people saying they are busy and normally being full of it, you have to understand that this is probably a special case. If she says she is busy, I believe her. The amount of emails, as well as time contacting people and making sure her team was up to date with matches, makes me believe she wouldn't just blow off the playoffs.

If you go back and look through the other HULA ML threads you will see that bds is consistently making posts to keep things moving.

Anyways, I've never really defended anyone on the forum before but I really think bds deserves a special mention from her team for doing a great job as captain.

Jon

[Perseus]

Can we create a new thread and vote?

Anyone in the remaining five teams can cast a vote, and you have 48 hours to do so?

Honestly, this might be the only way you are getting a concrete answer from a group of people.

[aslowjoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Before you go criticizing people for being busy, you should know that bds, as a captain, was absolutely great. She has sent numerous emails to her team with information on improving heads up play. She also sent out emails every week with standings/updates and information on the team we were scheduled to play (such as contact information).

Before she was swamped at work she would send e-mails offering to practice with people on the team so we could improve our chances to win.

To top it off, she offered to give back the extra money she would make as being a captain if we did win money. This offer wasn't prompted by anything in particular.

While I normally would agree with you with people saying they are busy and normally being full of it, you have to understand that this is probably a special case. If she says she is busy, I believe her. The amount of emails, as well as time contacting people and making sure her team was up to date with matches, makes me believe she wouldn't just blow off the playoffs.

If you go back and look through the other HULA ML threads you will see that bds is consistently making posts to keep things moving.

Anyways, I've never really defended anyone on the forum before but I really think bds deserves a special mention from her team for doing a great job as captain.



[/ QUOTE ]

I will second that.

[climber]

[ QUOTE ]
Can we create a new thread and vote?

Anyone in the remaining five teams can cast a vote, and you have 48 hours to do so?

Honestly, this might be the only way you are getting a concrete answer from a group of people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Best idea yet! I'd make it but I feel like it should be done by someone still in the playoffs.

Make a poll. 4 Choices are :
1) play it all out--normal payout structure
2) playoff for 4th place--even 4-way split among top 4 teams
3) call the season as is and split evnely among top 5 teams,
4)call the season--be grateful for the epxeience and give the prize pool to charity.

Finally make suer to include a link to view the results and only let people on the top five teams vote.

[timprov]

In order to put up continuing as a poll option, somebody needs to be willing to run the thing.

[bds]

I've never posted a poll, so this may be a stupid question - but is it possible to put up a poll that will be smart enough to limit the voting to one for specifically for each of those eligible to vote?

[Perseus]

I'm making a new thread now

[raisins]

How about we just end all of this and go by your decree?

As a side note, let me state that I am opposed to giving the money to charity. The money was put in by all players with the understanding that all of it would go to some of the tournament players. I don't like anyone declaring that someone else's money is going to charity. If a tourney participant wants to give the money they take out to charity they can do it on their own. Or not.

timprov, if you make a decision to donate the prize pool I will accept it. But, since I saw the idea of giving it to charity mentioned again I wanted to state my opposition to it as no one has made the case against it.

regards,

raisins

[timprov]

[ QUOTE ]

timprov, if you make a decision to donate the prize pool I will accept it. But, since I saw the idea of giving it to charity mentioned again I wanted to state my opposition to it as no one has made the case against it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not okay with the idea of just decreeing the prize pool to charity. This should be up to the individuals, i.e. we chop it up and if bds wants to give her share away that's fine.

[Stack]

I'm not agreeing whith tallying the non-voters as 3s, as wonk suggests. If anyone has a vote, they'll express it. You can't "imply" what non-voters mean by not voting. Maybe they are just indifferent either way.

[Stack]

By Microbob:

[ QUOTE ]
Right.

But timprov was seeming to imply that this will just be SOOOO difficult because it enough people will just be lazy and refuse to play.

Well...that's their problem and their fault.
If it's a draw/double-forfeit then that's fine.
If one team wins because another team gets lazy that's fine too.
That's life.

Just enforce the forfeits as they happen and move on.
And I still don't fully understand the reasoning behind not having the playoffs (aside from perhaps the people who are just not in the mood to do it and are kind of sick of the whole thing).



[/ QUOTE ]

I second this a 100%.

[Perseus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not agreeing whith tallying the non-voters as 3s, as wonk suggests. If anyone has a vote, they'll express it. You can't "imply" what non-voters mean by not voting. Maybe they are just indifferent either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. When I count the votes on Monday night non voters won't be counted as anything in particular.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, the only thing I'm doing is counting the votes and giving the majority opinion.

I'll make this all clear in the final thread after the tally. I'll basically say "here are the votes, here is who voted what, and this is the result"...so non voters won't be considered at all.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not agreeing whith tallying the non-voters as 3s, as wonk suggests. If anyone has a vote, they'll express it. You can't "imply" what non-voters mean by not voting. Maybe they are just indifferent either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. When I count the votes on Monday night non voters won't be counted as anything in particular.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, the only thing I'm doing is counting the votes and giving the majority opinion.

I'll make this all clear in the final thread after the tally. I'll basically say "here are the votes, here is who voted what, and this is the result"...so non voters won't be considered at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect. I appreciate you taking the responsibility.