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[MikMucker]

I play at home with my friends 17-19 yrs old, we are all beginner players but are starting to get better and better (i.e. taking advantage of check-raising, slowplaying, reading hands etc...). All along I have been trying to improve my game and be the best at the table (usually 4 or 5 players). I have read most of the theory of poker and try to calculate my implied odds before every call. We play with antes not blinds ($.25) and not structured betting and 3 raises a round. (.25-.75 min and max bet or raise). I read many forums and advice by lots of people. I understand most of the concepts explained and feel as though I have a good instinct for the game. However, I think I could be making more money by varying my play slightly. (I only make about a dollar or 2 an hour). Maybe Im already making enough). My friends see me as a slowplayer, very tight and agressive who waits for a big hand to make any money. Hands are rarely taken by a fold (almost always go to a showdown) and hence I rarely, if ever, make a pure or semi bluff. I fold to a .25 bet on anything Q5 or worse. I rarely raise a bet early. I never stay in a long shot draws.
I pretty much just want to know if the advice on these forums and in most of these books can be applied to our games at all. I know some of the theory can, and some of the advice when adjusted slightly can be, as I have used some of it in adjusted ways and feel as though I've profited from it. However, my friends are starting to get better than me and my bankroll doesnt go up as frequently or as much any more. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
thanks alot

btw, this is by far the most knowledgeable and helpful forum I have ever seen

[Nottom]

If you are making $1-2/hour at that limit, you are probably doing ok. The one thing that seems to be sticking out it that you seem to be a bit tight-passive maybe. Don't be a fraid to raise and reraise if you thinnk you have the best hand. Play tight ans punish the other players that want to see every hand, sure sometimes you will get beat, but overall it should work out.

Also if Q5 is your lower limit hand, you need to tighten up.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Theory of poker is the best book you can read to apply to home games. You'll need to read it many times. I reread it several times a year. Other books can help as well, look at the thread on this forum about the Feeney book and my list of recommended reading.

If you're getting too predictable, obviously you need to mix it up some. You made several statements that need to have exceptions. Ex:

"I rarely raise a bet early. "

Why not? When it's appropriate, do it.

"I never stay in a long shot draws."

Why not? When the pot/implied odds warrant it, then you should stay. Example: gutshots on the flop. It's seven ways for a quarter, plus the antes. You're on the button with JTs. The flop is A K x with one of your suit. First position bets a quarter and two people call. What you gonna do, fold? Sure it's a longshot, but the implied odds clearly warrant a call.

You need to be more fluid and dynamic, otherwise your buddies will have your number and will always know what you have because of your predictability.

My guess is that you're too young and inexperienced to expect to pummell your opponents every week. Study and give it some time. After much thought, reading, and experience, you'll be an "expoit."

Like "we."

al

[MikMucker]

Thanks alot for the help.

I played again last night and I used some of your pointers and did pretty well, I actually made $16 in 4 hours (it was an especially loose night for my opponents and I picked up some nice hands). But I'm still a little unsure about some of the hands Im throwing away after the flop. For example, with 5 opponents we all checked around, I had Qh8s and was happy for the free play. The flop came 5h10c8d. I thought my pair of 8's might be good bc of the check first round. I was on the button and it checked around till the person on my right bet .50. I threw it away this time. But after thinking about it, I feel like maybe a reraise would have been the best play. If I had reraised .75 I think I could have pushed everyone but the first bettor out most of the time. Anyone have any ideas, agreement, disagreement, anything would be helpful. Also what if I wasn't right next to the bettor and couldnt send two bets around meaning most would probably call. DO you think my 8's would be good in that case?
Thanks in advance.

btw, on your advice Im starting to reread Theory of Poker...

[lefty rosen]

Hey Queen 5 is solid leave the kid alone,lol...........

[Gahnia radula]

Just read your post and the thing that caught my attention was that u said u didnt play with blinds u played with antes. Just wondering how this worked, im assuming u all throw in an ante and then if u want to play your cards u call the min. bet.....just wondering?

[Nottom]

What are the antes in your game? Its hard to say what the right play is without knowing how big the pot is. I would also suggest convincing your friends to play with blinds since it really changes a lot of the strategy to be playing with an ante.

**edit, reread first post which said you had .25 antes, so given that info ...

Your opponent bet .50 into a 1.25 pot ... you are getting 3.5:1 if you call. If your opponent has the 10 he is representing then you have 5 outs to improve. A raise here will probably knock out some more people and will often buy you a free card on the turn. Additionally in a short handed game, 2nd pair is often good and knowing a bit about the player helps here as well of course (would he only bet top pair, etc). Umm I guess I never really answered your question and I'm not sure that I can ... sorry /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I'm glad to see you are thinking about making aggressive plays, and thinking about the logistics of the various things that might happen if you make such a play. That's how to do it. Now if you happen to decide that folding is better, more power to you. That's fine. Just look for those opportunities where aggressive play is the right move. Playing too passively in a loose game just makes you another calling station.

al

[MikMucker]

yeah, we all throw in .25 before the deal. At the first round we all have the option of betting or checking if there hasnt been a bet or calling or raising if there has

[gte910h]

1. You sound like you have a very no-foldem-holdem set of people here. This means they call too much. You then should try to exacerbate that problem to increase your win rate. Your tight image is bad here. To fix that, add a few strategic bluffs and make sure people know it when they fail. Once every other session, try to get a 72o cheaply to the river, or play bottom pair to the river cheaply as possible.

2. Another way to appear looser, you should do something that will bring in money on its own: Bet hands using implied odds.

When you have a lot of people staying in the whole way or much of the way, you are getting GREAT implied odds (see TOP if you don't remember what this is) even to BET draws sometimes.

For instance, a flush obviously beats trips. But if you'll get at least 2 callers who'll stay to the end, you can bet those trips, even if the flop comes down single suited, even if one or more of your friends obviously have the flush . This is because on the turn you'll fill up (get a full house) or get quads 7 out of 40 times you do this, and by the river you will get quads or a full house a full 33% of the time you take it that far. So if you can get 2 callers to "go the whole way", you can bet all the way down the the river, even put on a raise if you make your hand. This doesn't have that big of a positive expected value. But it REALLY makes you seem like a gambler, when you are actually doing something that isn't that unprofitable in the long run.

3. You may be leaking information about the quality of your hand through the amount you bet. I suggest always betting the max amount.

Another good book to consider for your game is Winning Low Limit Holdem, by lee jones.