$33 Level 4 Push Check...

[ace_in_the_hole]

Standard?

***** Hand History for Game 2824714987 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:16325084 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Tuesday, October 04, 16:51:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 11645 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: edita25 ( $825 )
Seat 2: DP3323 ( $705 )
Seat 4: philly04 ( $770 )
Seat 5: skootman ( $2420 )
Seat 6: larsson62 ( $1570 )
Seat 7: JXXL8 ( $745 )
Seat 9: Domitor_ ( $245 )
Seat 10: zbailey77 ( $720 )
Trny:16325084 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zbailey77 [ Ks Jh ]
larsson62 folds.
JXXL8 folds.
Domitor_ folds.
>You have options at Table 11649 Table!.
zbailey77 is all-In [720]

[DarrenX]

I'm with ya...

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with ya...

[/ QUOTE ]

yep

[MegaBet]

Yeah I'd do this and hope some idiot doesn't call with A3...which happens far too often in my opinion.

[caretaker1]

I don't have SNGPT in front of me, but this feels like a fold.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have SNGPT in front of me, but this feels like a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't checked either, but at this level of blinds you have to make this play. It's too good to fold and it doesn't make sense to just raise because then you'll be pot committed anyway. Use the maximum of your fold equity. Other then the BB, everyone will have to call for all their chips and they'd need a pretty good hand to do so. If the BB had been aggressive in his calling, I'd probably pass.

[Sabrazack]

I fold this.

And i checked it up with SNGPT and seems i am correct with this range on all players: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+. I think this is pretty close to what they will call you with.

And its still a very very marginal push setting them to this range: 66+,ATs+,AJo+. Which i think is way too tight.

[zambonidrivr]

wow. i thought this was a push and it was not even close. i am pushing this all day!

[mike28]

easy fold

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Instead of saying "easy fold", why don't you tell us why you think it's an "easy fold". I'd sure like to know.

[fisherman112]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Instead of saying "easy fold", why don't you tell us why you think it's an "easy fold". I'd sure like to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are three similar stacks behind him and the bb is sitting on a lot of chips. it is very likely that a push could be called considering this scenario and it's a little reckless to bank your tournament on K high at 50/100.

im not saying this is always a fold, but his chip position is not greatly improved by taking it down and he could definitely wait for a better spot.

i think it's a toss up depending on how tight their calling ranges are.
im more for pushing if it is closer to moving to 75/150 and more for folding if it's only recently become 50/100.

[Sabrazack]

Im guessing he thinks it's an easy fold because of stacksizes, your hand, blinds and position. The usual stuff basically. That is all we have to work with here.

[flyingmoose]

I ran it through SNGPT and it seems very marginal. I don't think it much matters what you do -- although my intuition leans toward a fold.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Instead of saying "easy fold", why don't you tell us why you think it's an "easy fold". I'd sure like to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are three similar stacks behind him and the bb is sitting on a lot of chips. it is very likely that a push could be called considering this scenario and it's a little reckless to bank your tournament on K high at 50/100.

im not saying this is always a fold, but his chip position is not greatly improved by taking it down and he could definitely wait for a better spot.

i think it's a toss up depending on how tight their calling ranges are.
im more for pushing if it is closer to moving to 75/150 and more for folding if it's only recently become 50/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that all the stacks bar the BB are even helps with the decision to push. They'd NEED at least a top 10% hand to call here, if not better. I would take that chance with this hand. If I get called into a coinflip situation, I'm not necessarily unhappy because with these stacks at this blind level it's almost inevitable to happen at some point. I use as much fold equity as possible. If I can get these blinds then I obtain a "free" round to give me time to pick up another playable hand. Would you not push 10 10 here? It's a similar hand odds-wise. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's my thinking.

[ace_in_the_hole]

At first I was gonna fold, but I thought I wouldn't find another spot to push before being down to 500 chips. So i pushed and BB woke up with AA. I then proceeded to suckout with runner runner K, and then posted hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rybones]

You still have plenty of chips and time. Especially as there are 8 left. Mega is right when he says a donk will call far too often with A,3; however, he is wrong imo (it is odd for me to say that as I mostly agree with his posts) that this is a push. I would rather stop-n-go in the the next time the blinds come around to me (come on haven't you seen a ton of min-raisers lately). Alternatively, with 8 still hanging on you have time and the distint possibility someone will push into you when you have J,J or better.

These are just my thoughts,

Ryan

[ QUOTE ]
Would you not push 10 10 here? It's a similar hand odds-wise. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's my thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pushing TT is far better than KJs here.

[jeffraider]

I wish people would stop saying easy this and not even close that. I've said it before too but I'm going to try to stop.

[mike28]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Instead of saying "easy fold", why don't you tell us why you think it's an "easy fold". I'd sure like to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has 7xbb. Not to bad not to great of shape. His pushing through 4 other players with the big stack on the bb with kjo.

He might run into a better spot before he gets into the blinds but even pushing any 2 from the sb for 6ish seems better than ramming KJ from mp.

edit: wait i forgot you can't beat king jack not suited so this is a clear push and it's not even close

[SammyKid11]

[ QUOTE ]
Standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Not standard. Obviously, on this thread, cases have been made for pushing...but it's a VERY marginal push. To respond to some of those saying it's a push...

1) Yes, obviously if you're going to play it, you push it -- but KJs is not "too good to fold" here. From the button, sure, but pushing through four means you're getting called by a hand that beats you an awful lot of the time. Folding is definitely not a bad option.

2) KJs and TT are not "about the same, odds-wise." KJs is a marginal holding that is totally dominated by seven hands (AA-JJ, AK, AJ, KQ), well worse than a coinflip against another (AQ), and no better than 46 percent against another 18 hands(TT-22, AT-A2). That's twenty-six hands you don't want any of FOUR players to turn over. With TT, there are exactly four hands you're afraid of (AA-JJ). Against everything else they might turn over, you're a favorite. Definitely not the same.

3) As for the stack sizes being roughly equal...that's the best argument that's been made. It still doesn't make me wanna push this here. I'd rather push any two from the SB or top 40% from the button than push KJs from CO+1, regardless of stack size similarity.

The fact that so many players are left means you have MORE hands through which you can wait to pick up either a good hand or a good pushing spot. I advise doing just that.

[arcticfox]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this.

And i checked it up with SNGPT and seems i am correct with this range on all players: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+. I think this is pretty close to what they will call you with.

And its still a very very marginal push setting them to this range: 66+,ATs+,AJo+. Which i think is way too tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

That range only applies to the BB, the other 3 players are probably only calling with 99+, AK-AJ, KQ which I think makes this push profitable. If you are on the button with 705 chips do you really call with the range of hands you ascribed to him?