View Full Version : The bible proves that god exists argument
Sponger15SB
10-04-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm trying to argue with someone who keeps quoting bible verses to claim that god exists and that we should believe in him.
For example, from John 15:1 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."
Now, can someone give me some ammo, especially dealing with what logical fallacy this is, etc.
I am having a hard time recalling what I learned in Philosophy 101.
Jim T
10-04-2005, 11:53 AM
Just write "I am God" on a piece of paper and wave that in his face as "proof" that you are divine.
Sponger15SB
10-04-2005, 11:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Just write "I am God" on a piece of paper and wave that in his face as "proof" that you are divine.
[/ QUOTE ]
And then he will tell me that god just told him that i'm actually not god.
I will try this, but I don't think he'll buy into it or understand.
Unfortunately, you can't use logic and reason with those who choose to have "faith" in their beliefs no matter what.
purnell
10-04-2005, 12:17 PM
I'm afraid someone who is so lost cannot be rescued.
Piers
10-04-2005, 12:24 PM
There is no logical fallacy, just ridiculous assumptions.
Proof can only exist within the bounds of a model containing logic. It is possible to consider Christian beliefs that take the contents of the Bible as axiomatic such a model. Within the bounds of that model using Bible quotes to prove Gods existence is perfectly logical.
Your only recourse is to argue his basic assumptions about the Bible are unrealistic. Or better still just give up.
Jeff V
10-04-2005, 12:27 PM
The Bible can't prove that God exists. It doesn't claim to either to my knowledge. It claims to be the divine word inspired by God.
Creation is only a theory, just like evolution is only a theory. Neither can be totally proven, or disproven.
Are you trying to talk some sense into your friend or something? Do you think any "ammo" you receive here would change his mind? If so why would you want to change his mind? Is he being obnoxious, rude, pushy about God etc?
If so the problem is with the person that your arguing with-not God.
Jeff
[ QUOTE ]
Creation is only a theory, just like evolution is only a theory. Neither can be totally proven, or disproven.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, one theory has some physical evidence, and the other theory has ... faith.
eOXevious
10-04-2005, 01:05 PM
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Of course, one theory has some physical evidence, and the other theory has ... faith.
[/ QUOTE ]
The bible does have a lot of Physical evidence, people just choose to not listen, or investigate.
Jeff V
10-04-2005, 02:01 PM
typical reply-very intriguing
chezlaw
10-04-2005, 02:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to argue with someone who keeps quoting bible verses to claim that god exists and that we should believe in him.
For example, from John 15:1 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."
Now, can someone give me some ammo, especially dealing with what logical fallacy this is, etc.
I am having a hard time recalling what I learned in Philosophy 101.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not good on fallacy names, is this one begging the question.
You can't tackle it from his starting point. The question is why does he believe the bible is true. If he says because it's the word of god then its a circular argument. You can only point out its circular, if his happy with his circular argument then there's nothing you can do to counter it - but circular arguments prove nothing.
If he tries to justify the bible by other means then you have the basis of a sensible conversation.
chez
Sponger15SB
10-04-2005, 02:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, you can't use logic and reason with those who choose to have "faith" in their beliefs no matter what.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he just threw out the faith argument.
Ugh, cryptonite.....
Btw, this is all taking place on the other message board I frequent. Its a bodyboarding message board for mostly people from southern california.
Aytumious
10-04-2005, 04:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
typical reply-very intriguing
[/ QUOTE ]
Is it not the correct response?
Girchuck
10-05-2005, 09:47 AM
Ask him what is his method of distinguishing divine revelation from hubris?
fnord_too
10-05-2005, 10:52 AM
If no one said it in the thread, I think the fallacy you are looking for is assuming the conclusion.
Tell him if he wants to prove that the god of the bible is real, he needs to use non biblical sources. You can try to tell him that his technique is the same as saying Gandalf the Grey really existed and citing The Hobit and Lord of the Rings passages as proof. I doubt you will get very far, though. (Never argue with a fool and all that...)
Chris Daddy Cool
10-06-2005, 11:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, you can't use logic and reason with those who choose to have "faith" in their beliefs no matter what.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, he just threw out the faith argument.
Ugh, cryptonite.....
Btw, this is all taking place on the other message board I frequent. Its a bodyboarding message board for mostly people from southern california.
[/ QUOTE ]
holy crap. how do you even find the time for another forum when you're all over 2+2?
jason_t
10-06-2005, 11:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Creation is only a theory, just like evolution is only a theory. Neither can be totally proven, or disproven.
[/ QUOTE ]
Link (http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/Dawkins/Work/Articles/alabama/1996-04-01alabama.shtml).
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Creation is only a theory, just like evolution is only a theory. Neither can be totally proven, or disproven.
[/ QUOTE ]
Link (http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/WorldOfDawkins-archive/Dawkins/Work/Articles/alabama/1996-04-01alabama.shtml).
[/ QUOTE ]
Dang you Jason,
I just went to your link. I started to read it, then I realized it is 12 pages. I am at work. I can't read it now, too long. I printed it out to read later. But, I have my weekly poker game to go to. It looks very interesting.
Dang you again (but thanks, too) ,
RJT
Jason,
Nice to see you stopped by here in the forum. I had noticed you (hard not to with your avatar) in the B & B forum (I mean B & M) . Just so you know, this is the Hotel California. “You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!”
Welcome,
RJT
very good link.
thanks
I actually learned something here for once
jason_t
10-07-2005, 12:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Jason,
Nice to see you stopped by here in the forum. I had noticed you (hard not to with your avatar) in the B & B forum (I mean B & M) . Just so you know, this is the Hotel California. “You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!”
Welcome,
RJT
[/ QUOTE ]
I lost a bet and lost my perfect avatar for two weeks. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
I will be spending more time in this forum in the future, I hope.
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