becoming a member of the Nation of Islam (Black Muslim movement)

[whiskeytown]

watching Malcolm X right now.

Very interesting thinking about the stuff I know and that form of Black Nationalism that Malcolm X was a part of.

As a white person, it makes no sense for me to consider getting caught up in this religion.

But I have a feeling if I were a black person, I'd be one of the first people standing in line at the rallies.

RB

[Georgia Avenue]

I know the feeling, though I think the fact that many people think that the Nation murdered Malcolm (very Christ-like eh?) kind of kills it...

After watching Malcolm X in college I went out the next day (well, soon after, maybe a week/images/graemlins/smirk.gif) and tried to convert to Islam. I went through many sessions of prayer and fasted and read the Koran. It was very enlightening, but I eventually (after about a year) found myself turned away from many of the cultural mores tied to Islam. I still think it's a beautiful religion, as based on the book, but as practiced most places it's hard to deal with. It's funny that now I'm willing to put up with similar shenanigans by Christian wack-os-- actually it's kind of a sad statement that lends some credence to the atheist's contentions of religion just being a cultural crutch rather than a reasoned choice. If I could be Muslim in a community of progressive mystics I very well might, especially if I got to keep the polygamy! I wish I’d have at least learned Arabic, I could get a job at the State Department…

Anyway, that’s a boss movie.

[Peter666]

Malcolm X, among other things, claimed to have visions involving the dead founder of his movement. If somebody else had these they would be considered wacko, yet Malcolm X is considered cool and a serious historical figure. What gives?

[ QUOTE ]
Malcolm X, among other things, claimed to have visions involving the dead founder of his movement. If somebody else had these they would be considered wacko, yet Malcolm X is considered cool and a serious historical figure. What gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, if Malcolm just claimed to round up two of every species and build an ark, or was nailed to a cross and rose from the dead, or turned 5 loaves into 5000 loaves because some listeners got the munchies, or something else along those lines, he would be much more credible.

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
Malcolm X, among other things, claimed to have visions involving the dead founder of his movement. If somebody else had these they would be considered wacko, yet Malcolm X is considered cool and a serious historical figure. What gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've actually never seen the movie, but I have nothing but respect for Malcolm X. If you look at the course of his life, you can see not only great intelligence but ultimately tremendous integrity. It's not often that you see personal growth, especially from a public figure, of such magnitude.

PS Could you provide a quote of one of these "visions" you talk of.

[Peter666]

This information is taken from Malcolm X's biography. Chapters 10 and 11 "Satan" and "Saved" clearly show that Malcolm got involved in a crazy cult.

Exact quote from chpt. 10 while in his prison cell:

"I suddenly, with a start became aware of a man sitting beside me in my chair...I knew I wasn't dreaming...Then suddenly as he had come, he was gone."

Later on he claims this was a vision of a Mr. WD Fard who was a founder of the movement.

[Jim T]

OK, I thought you were talking about Mohammed.

Yes, I'll certainly agree that the Nation of Islam is pretty much a "crazy cult". One that eventually murdered him.

[whiskeytown]

many people have experiences where they feel an overwhelming presense of love and peace - sometimes alcholics feel it when they stop drinking - Christians feel it when they get saved or filled with the spirit - some call it visions...

even if it's just psychological and not actually supernatural, it's still benefical. and it's not something to then point to and throw out every thing else - that's the narrowest kind of thinking... - actually that's the excuse of a man who's just looking for an excuse to be a bigot without saying he is.

I understand many people don't like Malcolm X, but please, come up with something better then that to have an ignorant opinion.

In any case, he turned his back on the Nation of Islam and did his own thing, so his vision of the Prophet Elijah wasn't big enough to keep him staying when he found out about said leader's hypocricy.

RB

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
In any case, he turned his back on the Nation of Islam and did his own thing, so his vision of the Prophet Elijah wasn't big enough to keep him staying when he found out about said leader's hypocricy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The NOI are deemed heretical by most sunni muslims (the majority) and indeed Malcom X did leave it and change his name after performing the Hajj where he found many of the NOI's teachings about muslims and Islam were different than what he experienced on the Hajj.

FWIW I think the NOI tries to fill a niche market and capitalize on blacks who 'need' an identity long lost because of the US history of slavery IMHO.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
...IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, until now SDM, I hadn't realized you ever had a "humble" opinion. Good to know it does exist.

Cheers, too.

RJT

[Peter666]

So, if I think the guy is crazy for having visions it is actually evidence of my bigoted nature?

Schizophrenia is not a mental disease, but a sign of enlightenment? Unless there is evidence that these visions come from a higher power....they are nuts!

I reject Malcolm X as a model or hero because he was a muslim. It is good he left the crazy cult, and Islam in its purer form is relatively speaking a step in a "better" direction. But it is still a false religion that I have no regard for, and hence for Malcolm X.

Maybe Osama Bin Laden should be your hero too?

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
So, if I think the guy is crazy for having visions it is actually evidence of my bigoted nature?

Schizophrenia is not a mental disease, but a sign of enlightenment? Unless there is evidence that these visions come from a higher power....they are nuts!

I reject Malcolm X as a model or hero because he was a muslim. It is good he left the crazy cult, and Islam in its purer form is relatively speaking a step in a "better" direction. But it is still a false religion that I have no regard for, and hence for Malcolm X.

Maybe Osama Bin Laden should be your hero too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and why does anybody care what the Good Samaritan did, anyway? Damn unbeliever.

[whiskeytown]

no that's cool

I have no respect for most Christians either - after all the wars they started in the Middle Ages, including the Holy Crusades for gold, er, God - the persecution of anyone who strayed from Catholic Dogma and the Inquisition, and the implicit collusion with the Nazi Government on the part of both Lutherans and the Catholic Church to deport Jews to concentration camps. -

Find any repressive society in the last 2000 years and you'll usually find some church guy behind the scene pushing that repression forwards -

I am very confident of one thing - that Malcolm X has done more for civil rights and improvement of society and the treatment of Afro-Americans in the 20th century then you have. YSSCKY.

RB

[Peter666]

Christian society preserved culture and created it. Islamic society only preserved some of Persian culture and destroyed the rest.

Malcolm X used some interesting catch phrases. As far as his contribution to civil rights, that is debatable. But making a hero out of him....? Put a white guy in a similar situation and we would say he is nuts or evil. But you have double standards and can't seem to think for yourself.

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
Christian society preserved culture and created it. Islamic society only preserved some of Persian culture and destroyed the rest.

Malcolm X used some interesting catch phrases. As far as his contribution to civil rights, that is debatable. But making a hero out of him....? Put a white guy in a similar situation and we would say he is nuts or evil. But you have double standards and can't seem to think for yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, followers of Islam also preserved a lot of Greek and Roman writings during the Dark Ages while the Christians were busy destroying them.

[vulturesrow]

What is an Afro-American?

[purnell]

[ QUOTE ]
What is an Afro-American?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Afro-American" is just another way we missed the point. Grouping people according to their physical appearance is insulting. It doesn't matter what names we call each other, they are still insulting and essentially meaningless.

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no respect for most Christians either - after all the wars they started in the Middle Ages, including the Holy Crusades for gold, er, God - the persecution of anyone who strayed from Catholic Dogma and the Inquisition, and the implicit collusion with the Nazi Government on the part of both Lutherans and the Catholic Church to deport Jews to concentration camps. -

Find any repressive society in the last 2000 years and you'll usually find some church guy behind the scene pushing that repression forwards -

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, Cuba among many others. Were "church guys" pushing those repressive societies forward?

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
watching Malcolm X right now.

Very interesting thinking about the stuff I know and that form of Black Nationalism that Malcolm X was a part of.

As a white person, it makes no sense for me to consider getting caught up in this religion.

But I have a feeling if I were a black person, I'd be one of the first people standing in line at the rallies.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

The NOI is not really considered part of Islam. And, as is obvious from Malcolm's trip to Mecca, that he realized this as well. I think he realized that the NOI was vulturous and manipulative (as is evident with how they treated Ali). I agree with some of Malcolm's political views, but I have always felt that the most important things that he did were not necessarily political (although many would argue that the personal is political). Malcolm had realized (even as a drug dealer, pimp, etc...).

As far as the NOI is, as run by Farrakhan, I can't see much difference between them and skinheads. They take advantage of angry and disillusioned youth. A lot of them won't realize it until it is too late (most won't see their respective "organizations" for what they really are as Malcolm did. ) that they have been manipulated.

craig