The best or worst fold of my life.

[Huh]

It’s a local 3-3-6-9 game with above average players post-flop, but it’s still an action game. I, as well as others, have brought a gamble it up attitude to the table.

I am in the BB, with magicman (a 2+2 lurker, and occasional poster) to my right. I think I have the action correct, but it my be flubbed at some point. MM is a respected gambler who either has a trust fund, or can hold his own, I obviously think it’s the later.

Pre-flop there is a limp, a raise, MM calls two-cold, and I three-bet out of the Big Blind. Maybe I should turn my hand face up, maybe not. Called around.

Flop is

A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

MM bets out(I believe), I raise, one caller, and MM calls.

Turn is an offsuit rag. I bet and only MM calls.

River is T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

MM bets out and I fold.

When he bet, I knew the pot was big enough that I had to call. I knew he knew this, and he knew I knew this. So I Folded. Does this make any sense?

Corollary 1: I thought I might get people to take a shot at me later on, which would be beneficial in this structure.

Corollary 2: I really wanted to see if I could do this. It did make me a bit nauseas.

So did I save $9 or lose $90?

-Huh /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Bob T.]

When he bet, I knew the pot was big enough that I had to call. I knew he knew this, and he knew I knew this. So I Folded. Does this make any sense?


Yes, if you are certain, that he knows that you will call, and he still bets, then you can fold. Once.

[bernie]

fold looks good to me. if he knows youll call, why is he betting? is he capable of bluffing here after the action in previous rounds? the pot is only big enough if you know he may be bluffing. that doesnt seem to be the case. what would he bet here with a 4 flush on the board w/str8 possible that you can beat? player knowledge helps here.

if he was capable of bluffing, then call. but i think the call is throwing money away.

i dont think other players are going to take shots at you based on one hand. and the fact that they dont know what you had.

[Your Mom]

What if he knew you knew that he would know you had to call, so since he knew that you knew that, he went ahead and bluffed you? Does that make any sense?

[Huh]

Actually, there was no four-flush on the board. It was a three-flush. As I was mucking I thought to myself. Self, I think this is a really good fold, but you can't do this again for a long time.

Incidentally, I think I would be more inclined to call a bet if there were four flush cards.

-Huh /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Huh]

It does, but fortunately I have a reputation for paying people off, so I don't think this was the case.

-Huh /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Bob T.]

That is why I said that he could do it. Once.

[Louie Landale]

Just because YOU know the only hands you could have are a set of Aces or Kings does NOT mean that its "obvious" to everybody, especially those with "trust funds" but including those that can "hold their own". And even if your hand REALLY is turned face up, doesn't mean everybody can see it.

He could have AT or KT fearing you'll check your AQ. This is not Mother Theresa betting. Yuuuuuuck.

- Louie

[cferejohn]

Aren't you getting odds to call? Let me see, 12 small bets before the flop. 6 more on the flop. So that's 9 big bets. When MM bets out that is ten big bets, so you are getting 10:1 on the call (and possibly better if the other caller comes along). There are 10 cards that make you a nearly certain winner (A, KKK, 999, TTT). I don't see how you can possibly fold to one bet on the turn here, even if you know for a fact that he has a flush. For that matter, even if you know for a fact that he has specifically Q<img src="/forums/images/icons/spade.gif" alt="" /> J<img src="/forums/images/icons/spade.gif" alt="" />, since that only eliminates one out.

Am I missing something?

I am assuming here that your hand was AA. If it was AK (no spade), then a fold is definitely defensible.

[bernie]

i really doubt that that level of thinking is going on here.

b

[bernie]

again, it really depends on what this player would bet here. there's a str8 possible along with the flush. if this is a str8 forward, predictable player in this spot, and many are, you can fold.

BUT, since i missed the mark a bit misreading the board and thinking there were 4 spades, betting a busted draw on the end is kind of a common play. if i thought this player was capable of doing it, id call. but it also matters how he sees your display of power too and how he reacts to it. youve given no indication of folding.

however, it is good to call sometimes even if you know for sure that youre beat.

b

[cferejohn]

LOL. Nevermind. Somehow I missed the "offsuit rag" turn line. Too late for me to delete it too. How embarassing.

[Your Mom]

I thought he said it was a fellow 2+2er so its possible. Against normal players it is not, of course.

[magic_man]

/forums/images/icons/cool.gif


~Magic_Man