Where do you feel your overlay is best?

[Irieguy]

You are practicing table selection in a single $1000 SNG and have the following four options. Which would you pick?

[Apathy]

Option 3 and 4 I assume you are just talking about levels 1-3?

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Option 3 and 4 I assume you are just talking about levels 1-3?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume that's their total stats... averaged over all levels.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Option 3 and 4 I assume you are just talking about levels 1-3?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume that's their total stats... averaged over all levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I wish to change my vote from 3 to x.
Nice Question btw, I need more info though before I could decide.

What would be really cool would be to have a table shot with some kind of HUD and open seats of all the options available so we could see what you are thinking exactly.

[raptor517]

.. ill let others vote holla

[The Don]

[ QUOTE ]
Option 3 and 4 I assume you are just talking about levels 1-3?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am almost sure that is the assumption.

I think I would go with #2 over #1 because that allows me to keep a tighter image, and as long as the player to my left is average for a 1k game his calling standards should still be fairly tight. I wouldn't choose #3 or #4 because I don't mind tight play early, It just gives me a chance to loosen up a bit.

[Deuce2High]

I vote for number one under one condition. After you rape the player to your left's blinds and he busts because he had to push K2s utg, the next player to your left automatically folds too much. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If that's not the case, I'll take the tight table.

[bawcerelli]

I went with #1. With #2 it doesn't matter if he's passive, the guy before him might be a pushbot. #3 doesn't guarantee they'll pay you off just because they're seeing flops. #4 tight players in general mean better players.

[Jman28]

A good player will be folding his BB a decent amount of the time anyways to your pushes. I picked #2. Getting a few free BBs extra would be real nice.

[pergesu]

You can pushbot vs anybody, it's just a matter of getting the numbers right.

Give me someone to play with, and I'll work my postflop wizardry.

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
I vote for number one under one condition. After you rape the player to your left's blinds and he busts because he had to push K2s utg, the next player to your left automatically folds too much. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If that's not the case, I'll take the tight table.

[/ QUOTE ]

[raptor517]

also for the record, i think this question is extremely easy and not even that close really. holla

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
You can pushbot vs anybody, it's just a matter of getting the numbers right.

Give me someone to play with, and I'll work my postflop wizardry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen your post flop wizardry /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can pushbot vs anybody, it's just a matter of getting the numbers right.

Give me someone to play with, and I'll work my postflop wizardry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen your post flop wizardry /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I got a lot better in the past couple hours..

[Jason Strasser]

Man this is such a loaded question.

So if the players who see 40% of flops are terrible than that seems like the option. But if they are good and aggressive than that could be horrifying. Same thing for the tight players. They could be tight and good or tight and terrible.

If you just left it as: would you rather a tight player to ur left or a tight player to your right, that may be more interesting. I prefer having him on my left because I push so damn much.

-Jason

I hate getting spite called

pushing is easy and most at a $1000 SNG should know how to play the bubble, and 5-6 handed pretty well.

I dont play high stakes but I belive that extracting as many chips as possible early is a good thing, and if they only see 18% of the flops they are TIGHT and will allow you to take down alot of small pots early.

Buddy to your left should be folding alot to your pushes. IF he is folding LESS than he SHOULD be folding, then this is also a good option, since he sucks at short handed - high blinds games.

I guess it all "depends".


If everyone is good, goto the tight table.

If buddy to your left sucks, but will make it to the late stages of the game, use it to your advantage.

[fnord_too]

I think this is easily number 4. 1 and 2 affect only one person, and really only come into play later, if they are still around. 3 people seeing 40% of the flops isn't that great if they play well post flop. 1 or 2 could easily get a nice stack early and make your life very unpleasant later. If everyone else is tight, I can pick up a lot of pots, probably without ever risking much of my stack. (I am assuming they only see 18% because they fold a lot, not because they are pushing a lot early, so I read it more on the vpip side)

[pergesu]

You know on second thought I think #4 might be best. It allows you to pick up a lot of pots uncontested, and then when you do see a flop, they miss three times out of four so you can pick it up there.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Man this is such a loaded question.

So if the players who see 40% of flops are terrible than that seems like the option. But if they are good and aggressive than that could be horrifying. Same thing for the tight players. They could be tight and good or tight and terrible.

If you just left it as: would you rather a tight player to ur left or a tight player to your right, that may be more interesting. I prefer having him on my left because I push so damn much.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, the key is, will the player on your left be there when it counts? I guess as a general question though, this is what I want most for all reasons pointed out already.

[J-Lo]

i voted 4, with the assumption that they are tight post flop too.... Pickin' up chips early gives u a HUGE advantage in a higher buyin tourney, because everyone knows how to push, and if the person to your left or right bust... well-- there goes that overlay.

[stupidsucker]

These polls would be better if there were no discussion until after the results were in, but since everyone is doing it...

<font color="white"> The first answer I would assume most would pick is #1.(if they don't read the thread and cheat.) All the time we talk about this, but if you want to get technical... This is seat selection, not table selection. I would chose #2 over #1 anyways because most people to my left are going to be tight reguardless. Besides. It is just 1 player we are talking about right? If that 1 player gets aces cracked the entire selection process is destroyed.

#3 could be awesome if you are able to take advantage of them early. They may be LaG with control and that can be brutal no matter what the level. #4 can go both ways as well. 18% overall is really vague if you ask me. Just isnt really enough info to go on. So I chose #3. </font>

[Isura]

I'd choose 2.

[Irieguy]

This question was asking for opinions, so there's not really an answer.

But table 4 is the most profitable, and it's not even close.

Most players see too many flops, but the ones that don't see enough flops are typically very easy to play against. They also tend to fold too often when pushed at, and not push enough. So by picking #4, you actually get #1 and #2 also.

We all fancy ourselves as players who are appropriately tight, but know when to push and fold when the blinds are big. But most tight players don't play this way. Also, most 2+2ers are too weak-tight before level 4 and it would be very easy to acquire chips in the early levels against an entire table of 2+2ers.

In a SNG, you will only see 60-80 hands or so. That means that you rate to not ever see AA or KK, and you rate to not see a flop and make a hand better than 2 pair. You get your chips by having opponents fold, and winning your fair share when they don't. A SNG against 9 tight opponents would be the easiest to beat.

Irieguy

PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
All 9 players see less than 18% of flops

[/ QUOTE ]

can someone w/ PT post their flop % seen and their vpip? because i don't think 18% is very tight at all. in the beginning you're supposed to be tight and later you're stealing blinds most pots you play.

[Oluwafemi]

what does overlay mean and what's it's importance?

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
what does overlay mean and what's it's importance?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i tell you, "give me $1 and flip a coin. heads i keep your dollar, tails you get $10 total." you have a 5-1 = $4 overlay. same idea for poker.

[microbet]

Which options most accurately describe lower buyin STTs and which more accurately describe higher buyin STTs and which type of STTs are more profitable?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

[/ QUOTE ]

i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

Option 3 by far. They're just giving money away if they're seeing 40% or more of flops. Just have to wait for a fantastic hand or wait till they're out, and that is an easy way to get ITM.

[psyduck]

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by far...it's not even close...of course option X

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I love how everyone is so sure of his/her answer. Keep an open mind.

[raptor517]

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by far...it's not even close...of course option X

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how everyone is so sure of his/her answer. Keep an open mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes the answer is actually this clear cut though, and an open mind only serves to lessen your abilities. holla

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

[/ QUOTE ]

i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see how easy this question is given its vagueness. Irie said it was a matter of opinion but then said the answer was "clear cut"? Seeing flops 18% of the time doesnt mean much by itself. If its 18%, and passive thereafter, then that's one thing. But if these tighties are super TAG, then I don't know how advantageous this is. Especially if when most of their action will come later at higher blinds.

But I am willing to see how this could be correct.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

[/ QUOTE ]

i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see how easy this question is given its vagueness. Irie said it was a matter of opinion but then said the answer was "clear cut"? Seeing flops 18% of the time doesnt mean much by itself. If its 18%, and passive thereafter, then that's one thing. But if these tighties are super TAG, then I don't know how advantageous this is. Especially if when most of their action will come later at higher blinds.

But I am willing to see how this could be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

if ALL 9 players at the table other than you see less than 18% of the flops, you are in for a real treat. you will be able to accumulate a sick amount of chips up until level 4, and by the time u get there, you will have whittled everyone down to around 800-850, and you should have a healthy stack.

at this point, assuming everyone is a weak tight player, and seeing less than 18% of flops indicates that a little bit, even if they are just tight agressive, they STILL probably call WAY too tightly in the bb. you will be able to shove with near ease and continue to pick up chips.

sure, some of them will be playing the ideal 2+2 pushbot style, and will be stealing yer blinds in turn, but you are already miles ahead of them, and assuming you play well also, you wont have any problems dealing with them. i much rather have an entire table see less than 18% of flops than ONE person to my left who folds a lot, or ONE person to my right who folds a lot, or 3 maniacs that prevent me from picking up pots early. thats raptors argument.. argue against if u must. holla

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
A SNG against 9 tight opponents would be the easiest to read.


[/ QUOTE ]

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
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PS- Raptor got it right and then told me that he has never been wrong in any thread ever. Feel free to discuss that if you'd like.

[/ QUOTE ]

i got it right because the question isnt that hard. then u made me change it so people could vote. oh, and yer a tool. /images/graemlins/wink.gif holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see how easy this question is given its vagueness. Irie said it was a matter of opinion but then said the answer was "clear cut"? Seeing flops 18% of the time doesnt mean much by itself. If its 18%, and passive thereafter, then that's one thing. But if these tighties are super TAG, then I don't know how advantageous this is. Especially if when most of their action will come later at higher blinds.

But I am willing to see how this could be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

if ALL 9 players at the table other than you see less than 18% of the flops, you are in for a real treat. you will be able to accumulate a sick amount of chips up until level 4, and by the time u get there, you will have whittled everyone down to around 800-850, and you should have a healthy stack.

at this point, assuming everyone is a weak tight player, and seeing less than 18% of flops indicates that a little bit, even if they are just tight agressive, they STILL probably call WAY too tightly in the bb. you will be able to shove with near ease and continue to pick up chips.

sure, some of them will be playing the ideal 2+2 pushbot style, and will be stealing yer blinds in turn, but you are already miles ahead of them, and assuming you play well also, you wont have any problems dealing with them. i much rather have an entire table see less than 18% of flops than ONE person to my left who folds a lot, or ONE person to my right who folds a lot, or 3 maniacs that prevent me from picking up pots early. thats raptors argument.. argue against if u must. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the other answers were no good, bc isolating one player for a question like this is not as good as generalizing about the entire table. I am just trying to think how 18% of "flops seen" could be used optimally to not be as favorable as you say.

I assume flops seen means just that, IOW, If I push your blind and you fold PF, that does not count, correct?

I just think other assumptions are being made about the 18% that, yes, are usually true, but not necessarily.

But I agree that 4 is better, I am convinced. gj

[Apathy]

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This question was asking for opinions, so there's not really an answer.

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Raptor got it right

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/images/graemlins/wink.gif


PT stats can be misleading, especially a stat like flops seen in STTs. Don't over-estimate the value of taht statistic especially when it is averaged out over all levels, usually with a tiny smaple size.


In many SNGs very few flops are seen at all in the endgames and when they are (especially at the higher levels) it's all in PF. Seeing 20% of the flops 4 handed would be quite loose usually.

[stupidsucker]

18% VPIP?

If so, I am going against the grain.

It just isnt enough information imo to go on. This is probably due to my not understanding enough, so I would love to here how this is so fullproof. I don't see how a blanket stat over 10 levels of play can give you any true indication how they play it. I would not want to play in any amount of SnGs against 9 variation clones of myself.

How many people here have a 1k+ sample of SnGs over $1k buy in anyways? 1,2,3 none?

[HighestCard]

[ QUOTE ]
18% VPIP?

If so, I am going against the grain.

It just isnt enough information imo to go on. This is probably due to my not understanding enough, so I would love to here how this is so fullproof. I don't see how a blanket stat over 10 levels of play can give you any true indication how they play it. I would not want to play in any amount of SnGs against 9 variation clones of myself.

How many people here have a 1k+ sample of SnGs over $1k buy in anyways? 1,2,3 none?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your wanting the tighest table you can get in your situation, which forces the answer to be 4th. Like Ire said earlier, if your table is agressive your going to have to end up playing tight but you dont get to see a great number of hands. Therefore, your likely to not get the cards you need for an agressive table. If ALL of your oponents arnt seeing many flops you must be at a tight table, because if they realized the situation they were in some would lean towards agression later in the game. Choice 1 and 2 are plain stupid because theres no gaurentee they are going to be to your left or right when you get to pushbot mode.

HC

[pineapple888]

Wow, has anyone choosing #4 actually ever played at a TAG table?

There is almost always a raise preflop. There is often a re-raise. There might not be a flop seen by anyone for 2 or 3 orbits.

Believe me, you *don't* want to be at one of those tables.

So, like others have said, you really need more information for choices 3 or 4. It could be a weak table, it could be a very strong table, you just don't know.

Absent that information, I'd go with 2. You accumulate chips in SnG by being the first one to push in a reasonable spot. How many times have you been ready to push, then the guy to your right pushes instead, and you have to fold? If I didn't have to worry about that, I'd be happy. The guy to my left should be folding most of the time I push anyway, so that doesn't really help me much.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what does overlay mean and what's it's importance?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i tell you, "give me $1 and flip a coin. heads i keep your dollar, tails you get $10 total." you have a 5-1 = $4 overlay. same idea for poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

now translate that into how it deals with this thread.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what does overlay mean and what's it's importance?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i tell you, "give me $1 and flip a coin. heads i keep your dollar, tails you get $10 total." you have a 5-1 = $4 overlay. same idea for poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

now translate that into how it deals with this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Which situation gives you the best advantage to win the tourney"

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what does overlay mean and what's it's importance?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i tell you, "give me $1 and flip a coin. heads i keep your dollar, tails you get $10 total." you have a 5-1 = $4 overlay. same idea for poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

now translate that into how it deals with this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Which situation gives you the best advantage to win the tourney"

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't really answer that question because it's in reference to a $1000 SNG. however, at the level i play it'd have to be:

[ QUOTE ]
3 players see 40% of the flop and all 9 players 18% of the flop. i don't feel spooked at either loose tables or tight ones.

[/ QUOTE ]