View Full Version : Question on using terminology... "the nuts"
Karak567
10-04-2005, 02:14 AM
Say I have a hand that, knowing my cards, is the best possible hand this board can make, however is not technically the nuts on this board. Would I still be correct to say I hold "the nuts?"
Example:
I have AK.
Flop comes AAK.
Obviously just looking at this board not knowing any hole cards, "the nuts" would be AA.
However holding AK, I know no one can possibly have AA, so would I be correct in saying I hold "the nuts?"
Sorry if this is a silly question.
timprov
10-04-2005, 02:25 AM
Yes.
the nuts is an unbeatable hand, given the game that you are playing
pure nuts, is the best possible ranking hand that someone could have.
EStreet20
10-04-2005, 07:12 AM
Yes. I believe some books describe your hand as the "relative nuts" rather than the pure nuts but you are still correct in saying you had the nuts.
FouTight
10-04-2005, 10:32 AM
We've also had a recent debate that falls along these lines... the use of the term "Nut flush"
if the board is reading 3 well space diamonds, lets say "3 8 J" and no pairs, then if you hold 2 diamonds, including the A, then you hold the "Nut Flush" but what if the board pairs, is your hand still called the "Nut" flush because while it's the highest possible flush, it is no longer the nut hand.
it's still the nut flush, but not the nuts. nuts just means "best possible" whether it be the nut straight, or the nuts overall. nuts is the kind of word that if you say it aloud to yourself, eventually it loses all meaning.
FouTight
10-04-2005, 11:31 AM
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it's still the nut flush, but not the nuts. nuts just means "best possible" whether it be the nut straight, or the nuts overall. nuts is the kind of word that if you say it aloud to yourself, eventually it loses all meaning.
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I view the turn "nut" as an adjective to the hand as a whole, and not the flush held. There is only one nut hand, also, if the board read 2345 of diamonds you wouldn't call your A of diamonds the nut flush, would you?
Guthrie
10-04-2005, 11:38 AM
You hold the nuts on the flop, but you may not hold the nuts on the river.
Technically here, the "nuts" would be KK, given what you know about your hand. Depending on the next two streets and the texture of the flop, the "nuts" could even grow to be QTs or JTs or QJs or just a single card if it all falls right.
Convoluted? Yes. You've got the nuts.
EStreet20
10-04-2005, 11:48 AM
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Technically here, the "nuts" would be KK, given what you know about your hand.
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That's one of the most wrong statements I've ever heard anywhere. Read the OP again. KK is the third best possible hand, aka third nuts, behind AA and AK.
Etaipo
10-04-2005, 11:52 AM
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Technically here, the "nuts" would be KK, given what you know about your hand.
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On a board of AAK when hero holds AK?
Bzzzt.
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I view the turn "nut" as an adjective to the hand as a whole, and not the flush held. There is only one nut hand, also, if the board read 2345 of diamonds you wouldn't call your A of diamonds the nut flush, would you?
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If you want to be nitty, the K would be the nut flush and the 6 would be the nut straight flush and absolute unbeatable nuts. It's really a matter of semantics and doesn't make a big difference.
Sorry, you're right, I was incomplete. I was thinking about a friend of mine who had this exact thing happen in his home game this weekend, but I think I recounted the hand incorrectly.
Sorry for the confusion. I'll blame it on staying up too late last night playing poker.
EStreet20
10-04-2005, 03:14 PM
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I'll blame it on staying up too late last night playing poker.
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No problem, definitely a condition we can all relate to.
Good luck,
Matt
Edge34
10-04-2005, 04:49 PM
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I view the turn "nut" as an adjective to the hand as a whole, and not the flush held. There is only one nut hand, also, if the board read 2345 of diamonds you wouldn't call your A of diamonds the nut flush, would you?
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If you want to be nitty, the K would be the nut flush and the 6 would be the nut straight flush and absolute unbeatable nuts. It's really a matter of semantics and doesn't make a big difference.
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If you want to be REALLY nitty, the A is still the nut flush (even though it happens to be a straight flush), since the King-high is never the nut flush. Also, since I'm in a nitty mood today, the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is the nut straight flush, and therefore, the "pure nuts". /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
UATrewqaz
10-04-2005, 05:50 PM
The "nut" this or another means hte best possible hand of that rank
Thus having the "nut" flush simply menas you have the best possible flush
such as Ax /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
or Kx /images/graemlins/club.gif
A /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif
The nut straight is of course AKQJT.
But there is also something called hte "absolute" or "stone cold nuts", that is the best hand utterly possible
The "nut" flush may not necessarily be the absolute nuts, (aka if the board is paired or a straight flush is possible).
In your example where you have AK and the board is AAK
You know you have the stone cold nuts (at this point in time). TO anyone not knowing any hole cards the stone cold nuts is "AA" but since you know for a fact that doesn't exsit you KNOW you have hte stone cold nuts (at this time).
Hoewver if the turn comes 2 and river comes 2 then the stone cold nuts is 22.
Identifying what hte nuts are is very useful.
I have seen people fold to bets with the absolute nut straight on the board.... ya.
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I view the turn "nut" as an adjective to the hand as a whole, and not the flush held. There is only one nut hand, also, if the board read 2345 of diamonds you wouldn't call your A of diamonds the nut flush, would you?
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If you want to be nitty, the K would be the nut flush and the 6 would be the nut straight flush and absolute unbeatable nuts. It's really a matter of semantics and doesn't make a big difference.
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If you want to be REALLY nitty, the A is still the nut flush (even though it happens to be a straight flush), since the King-high is never the nut flush. Also, since I'm in a nitty mood today, the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif is the nut straight flush, and therefore, the "pure nuts". /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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Ha. Battle of "edge" posters. Anyway, 76 and 6 are functionally the exact same since they're both unbeatable regardless of the river, but I'll concede that 6 isn't the pure nuts. If you have the 6, you hold the nut straight flush and the pure nuts though. I don't agree that the A is the nut flush because it is no longer a flush, and is instead a straight flush. Therefore, the best "flush" (nut flush) would be K.
timprov
10-04-2005, 09:34 PM
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I don't agree that the A is the nut flush because it is no longer a flush, and is instead a straight flush.
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Not always.
EStreet20
10-05-2005, 09:21 AM
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The nut straight is of course AKQJT.
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Haha I can't believe I'm still nitpicking in this thread but no, it's not always. Do you see why?
I witnessed this hand on a full ring party 2k NL table. An EP raised the $10/$20 dollar blinds to $80. 1 caller in late position and the BB called. The flop was K77. BB checked, EP bet $125 and the other two called. The turn was a 3. BB bet out $300, EP called, LP called. River was a 2. BB bet $675, EP went all in another $1400. LP thought for a while and folded. BB called for another $1100 or so (he was all in). BB flipped over k7. EP flipped over KK. LP said afterwards he had a7. The point is, the coversation around the table stated that EP had the nuts and BB had the second nuts...I didnt say anything but apparently people never considered 77. The term having the nuts is occasionally thrown around without being correct.
it's still the best possible flush, but not the best possible hand. i think you can still consider it the nut flush. obviously if it's a straight flush, you wouldn't call it just a flush.
You are absolutely correct. Your holding of AK blocks another player from having quads. Therefore, this hand is the nuts although there is a possibility of a split pot if another player also holds AK. Finally, depending on the suits of the cards on the flop, there may be a royal flush possibility
otnemem
10-07-2005, 11:16 AM
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The nut straight is of course AKQJT.
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Haha I can't believe I'm still nitpicking in this thread but no, it's not always. Do you see why?
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Um, no. Please explain when AKQJT is not the nut straight.
EStreet20
10-07-2005, 11:21 AM
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The nut straight is of course AKQJT.
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Haha I can't believe I'm still nitpicking in this thread but no, it's not always. Do you see why?
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Um, no. Please explain when AKQJT is not the nut straight.
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Uhh hello genius, when the board is 2 3 678, T9 gives you the nut straight of 6789T. In fact on this as welll as many boards, AKQJT is impossible to have. You seem to forget that the nut flush/straight or absolute nut hand is always dependent on the board.
Zetack
10-07-2005, 04:42 PM
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The nut straight is of course AKQJT.
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Haha I can't believe I'm still nitpicking in this thread but no, it's not always. Do you see why?
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Um, no. Please explain when AKQJT is not the nut straight.
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Uhh hello genius, when the board is 2 3 678, T9 gives you the nut straight of 6789T. In fact on this as welll as many boards, AKQJT is impossible to have. You seem to forget that the nut flush/straight or absolute nut hand is always dependent on the board.
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This is a really silly (and wrong) nit pick. On the board you are suggesting there is no A-T straight possible. The poster said A-T is always the nut straight. It is. You can not have an A-T straight and not have it be the nut straight.
An ace high flush is always the nut flush.
Quad aces is always the nut quads. What's heard about that concept?
On some boards of course the nut straight for that board will be something different, but lower straight will never beat the A-T straight because, again, its the nut straight.
Genius.
Have you ever heard somebody say that the stone cold nuts is a royal flush when they weren't refereing to any particular board? I suppose you chime in going, oh no its not, a lot of times a royal flush isn't a possible hand.
--Zetack
EStreet20
10-07-2005, 06:50 PM
Yes Z, an A high flush is always the nut flush. I put flush in my response erroneusly. However whether or not you say AKQJT is "always" the nut straight is right or wrong depening on semantics. Obviously, if you have it, it's always the nut straight. However, every poker book begins with a small section on identifying the nuts, second nuts etc. Thus, as I said, the nut hand/straight depends on the board every single time. I can have a 76 and have the nut straight of 34567 on a board of 3 4 5 A K. I guess I took what he said backwards. Rather than saying AKQJT is not always the nut straight, I should have phrased it as "the nut straight isn't always AKQJT."
BTW, I love nitpicking.
Good luck,
Matt
Klepton
10-07-2005, 06:55 PM
i can't believe that people handled this question with respect and didn't make any condesending jokes about the OP.
good job general forum.
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