5/10 turn minraise

[queenhigh]

6 handed. Donk min raises UTG. Unkown on his left ($1700, I cover) calls. I call in the BB w/ 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Flop ($60) is 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I lead for $60. Donk folds, unknown thinks it over and calls.

Turn ($180) is the 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif. I bet $125, he min raises.

I call.

River ($430) is the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif


I...

[Rick Nebiolo]

I'll try one.

I think the turn is the time to gamble and reraise.

Given your turn call can checking and calling a pot or less size bet be that bad? You seem to be either way ahead or less likely way behind. Some (many?) of the hands you might be ahead of won't call your bet but might bet as a continuation play. If you bet and are raised you have a tough decision because you won't always be behind.

Just my very humble opinion.

~ Rick

[Lucky]

[ QUOTE ]
6 handed. Donk min raises UTG. Unkown on his left ($1700, I cover) calls. I call in the BB w/ 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Flop ($60) is 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I lead for $60. Donk folds, unknown thinks it over and calls.

Turn ($180) is the 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif. I bet $125, he min raises.

I call.

River ($430) is the Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif


I...

[/ QUOTE ]


Check, call a moderate bet, looks like your beaten.

[AZK]

check

Without any prior knowledge, I'm check-calling on the river here. There is a good chance Villain has an overpair that includes /images/graemlins/club.gif.
As for how you played it - I would lead smaller or bigger on the turn. Smaller ($80-$95) is what I would lean towards, because then the turn minraise allows you to more easily reraise to $350 - $400 and make a decision based on his reaction. Similarly, a bigger bet will make his minraise more significant in the hand that it likely indicates.

[flawless_victory]

i like a semibluff push on the turn.
i like checkfolding the river.

[outdrwn]

Fold preflop?? Seems like the best thing.

The semi-bluff all in on the turn is retarded because if he has the flush, your gonna lose all your money, regardless if you make the straight or not. If he has the flush you still have some equity, but he's not going to fold it, and your going to be way behind. Check folding the river, is also retarded, because your hand is very strong and just because some unk minraises doesn't mean he has the flush. Check-calling or making a 1/4 sized block/value bet seems better in my opinion, if he raises, then you can fold. He may just call with something like an overpair, and if he raises, well, you've got some more information and can base your decision on that.
What happened in the actual hand?

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop??

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

[ QUOTE ]
If he has the flush you still have some equity, but he's not going to fold it

[/ QUOTE ]
Very possible for hero to have a boat here. I think that at the 5/10 level, you will definitely find some people who can fold a flush here, especially if it isn't the NF. Also... hero has 10 outs v. a flush. Whether you can make them fold often enough... I don't know. Although, I do agree that if we get called, our straight outs are no good.

[ QUOTE ]
Check-calling or making a 1/4 sized block/value bet seems better in my opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the block bet here, mayyyybe an overpair calls you, but I doubt it. Not to mention a weak ass bet like that is likely to get raised with air. I think check/call and check/fold are the only decent lines. With check/fold being very read dependant.

Overall, I think that I like hero's line better than the re-raise on the turn, vs. an unknown, but I definitely see the merit of it with a good read.

[AdamBragar]

I'd heavily consider folding the turn. You can't possibly beat too many hands here.

Check the river, hope it's checked down. You're screwed on the river if he bets.

[Big_Jim]

You don't think hero's boat outs are clean?

[AdamBragar]

I'm definetely doing the math really quickly here, but if if all his outs are clean and hero is behind to a made flush, the hero needs 4:1 on his money and is actually only getting like 3.5:1 on his money. Probably very little implied odds, because only a 6 will help him get paid off.

[jrforman]

No one puts villain on 44 for a made full house?...Highly likely he smooth calls the flop with a full house as well as flush draw. Moreover, on a paired board given stack sizes isn't it more likely that villain will raise more with a flush to not allow someone to draw to a full boat? Hate to think worst case scenario but I think it needs to be considered since the turn min-raise is pretty suspicious.

[Big_Jim]

555:125 = 4.4:1

[amoeba]

whats wrong with check calling the turn?

I go into shutdown mode when turn card completes flush.

From villain's perspective his mini-raise tells us two possible things: either he has the flush, is representing one or can beat a flush. He could even have a straight. You're not even beating a 5; 53 or 52 is the only five you're beating.

I check/crying call the river.

Turn bet was far too much. Now it's far harder to get away and you are pot committed. Generally not good to get yourself into that situation.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn bet was far too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? If he's going to bet... I think this is about the minimum.

[ QUOTE ]
Now it's far harder to get away

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps a bit harder, yes.

[ QUOTE ]
and you are pot committed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not even close

[ QUOTE ]
Generally not good to get yourself into that situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

True... but that situation is not present here.

[AdamBragar]

Yup, I can't do math. Call the turn, fold unimproved on the river. I would have folded the turn only because I can't count higher than 3.

[amoeba]

I guess I don't understand what the turn bet accomplishes.

are you trying to block the turn from a bluff?

are you trying to get value from overpair and charge him for 4th club?

if you are just betting turn for info then his raise gave you all the info you need. just fold the turn.

This, I bet the turn, call the minraise, thus bloating the pot crap sucks.

just check the turn.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't understand what the turn bet accomplishes.

are you trying to get value from overpair and charge him for 4th club?


[/ QUOTE ]

looks like you know exactly what betting the turn accomplishes.

[ QUOTE ]
just check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ] noooo... you can't just assume he has clubs... and once the min raise comes he is pot committed to call for a boat as long as he doesn't talk himself into a bad river call...

[queenhigh]

thanks for all the replies. i didn't want to rereaise the turn and have him blow me off my boat draw if he pushed with a flush. also, my image was probably on the LAG side, so i figured he might just be trying to get a cheap showdown with AA or KK after trying to trap the donk who opened PF. i was prepared to call about two-thirds the pot depending on the river.

didn't matter though, cause he checked behind on the river and mucked his 66.