Flop Nut Flush

I'm new to Omaha.. Would anyone play the following hand differently to maximize profit?? thank you

$50 PL Omaha - Monday, October 03, 22:08:28 EDT 2005
Table Table 55191 (6 max) (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: NUT_FLUSH_TX ( $49.79 )
Seat 3: thaprophecy1 ( $76.13 )
Seat 6: AUspartan23 ( $47.52 )
Seat 4: TravisV3 ( $31.36 )
Seat 5: PhatimooseJr ( $48 )
Seat 1: mj4887 ( $17.95 )
NUT_FLUSH_TX posts small blind [$0.25].
thaprophecy1 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to thaprophecy1 [ Ac Qc Qs 8c ]
TravisV3 folds.
PhatimooseJr folds.
AUspartan23 raises [$1.75].
mj4887 folds.
NUT_FLUSH_TX folds.
thaprophecy1 calls [$1.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Tc, 9c ]
thaprophecy1 checks.
AUspartan23 bets [$2].
thaprophecy1 raises [$6].
AUspartan23 folds.
thaprophecy1 does not show cards.
thaprophecy1 wins $11.40

[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Tc, 9c ]
thaprophecy1 checks.
AUspartan23 bets [$2].
thaprophecy1 raises [$6].

[/ QUOTE ]

LOOK LOOK LOOK I have the nut flush!

Your only chance to get any more out of this hand is to call here.

[Joshssj4]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Tc, 9c ]
thaprophecy1 checks.
AUspartan23 bets [$2].
thaprophecy1 raises [$6].

[/ QUOTE ]

LOOK LOOK LOOK I have the nut flush!

Your only chance to lose any more out of this hand is to call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Verdi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, Tc, 9c ]
thaprophecy1 checks.
AUspartan23 bets [$2].
thaprophecy1 raises [$6].

[/ QUOTE ]

LOOK LOOK LOOK I have the nut flush!

Your only chance to get any more out of this hand is to call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

And let him fill up for free?!?

[Jorge10]

Dont check raise with the nut flush, no one is that stupid. You can only do one of two things, either bet out the pot, or check call. Check raise never works and never will because no one is that stupid.

Does this look like a continuation bet to anyone else? Without a better read, it would seem like he had nothing and was testing the waters here.

I agree that it is certainly a riskier play to check/call this flop, but you might be able to get hime to try and represent the flush again on the turn.

[Peter Harris]

agreed. I like a pot sized bet, giving no odds for the turn fill. check-calling is the riskiest way to maximise gain, checkraising takes the small pot right there. So i like the lead out.

[autobet]

You probably made the max on this hand as your opp had nothing. By checking you got your opp to make a continuation/probe bet.

Since you are out of position, your opp will probably check behind you on the turn if you slowplay. This is okay and you should slowplay a good deal of the time.

You will only get paid off by sane opponents when they flop the second nut flush or decide to draw if they flop a set.

I think your play was fine. If the flop didn't help him, you extracted the maximum. If he had something, your reraise would get more money in the pot if he called. Check-calling is obviously dumb to anyone who understands Omaha. If he has nothing you won't get anymore money out of him anyway and you'll just be giving him free cards. Check-calling screams FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH more than check-raising. I'll check-raise bluff often if my opponent makes a gutless bet like 2 dollars.
I also like betting weak into him to see if he'll try to bluff at the pot. But I guess that depends on the caliber of competition. A lot of weaker players won't reraise bluff in PL Omaha.
In conclusion, since he was the preflop raiser it's a good idea to check it to him in a must raise (for him) situation. If he's got nothing, you're lucky you got that 2 dollars.

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-calling is obviously dumb to anyone who understands Omaha.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not everyone online understand basic omaha logic.

[ QUOTE ]
Check-calling screams FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH more than check-raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I dont think so. Ive seen people call with sets on a flush board, its not uncommon. Also some people can really snap on the turn and just bet out with a smaller flush, or at the very least bet out again, but you have to give them some sort of rope to hang themselves. Check raising basically says I got a big hand call me if you think you have the best hand, well unless they have the nut flush no one is going to call, and that is not omaha knowledge just common sense.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll check-raise bluff often if my opponent makes a gutless bet like 2 dollars.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok so you win the hands obviously because they are weak. So how exactly do your opponents know that you have been reraising them with junk? Can they see into your mind? Unless you show hands a lot they would never know and give you credit for the flush everytime and would just fold every single time. You are assuming they know you bluff with crap and will call, which they obviously dont.

[ QUOTE ]
Not everyone online understand basic omaha logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I said it was obviously dumb to people who understand Omaha, then explained why it was a bad play for those to whom it isn't yet obvious. Not making fun of them or ridiculing them. To anyone that understands holdem it's obviously dumb to give free cards on a flop of 8-9-10 suited when you've got top set, and by saying that I'm not speaking ill of people who don't understand basic holdem logic, just stating a fact.

[ QUOTE ]
Really? I dont think so. Ive seen people call with sets on a flush board, its not uncommon. Also some people can really snap on the turn and just bet out with a smaller flush, or at the very least bet out again, but you have to give them some sort of rope to hang themselves. Check raising basically says I got a big hand call me if you think you have the best hand, well unless they have the nut flush no one is going to call, and that is not omaha knowledge just common sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I admit this is debateable, but I was just responding to the poster that said it was bad to check-raise because it gives the hand completely away. I guess I exaggerated the point I was trying to make that a check-raise when the original raiser made an small bet can mean pretty much anything from a tricky player, but a check-call means the checker has at least something (even if just a set, like you said).

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so you win the hands obviously because they are weak. So how exactly do your opponents know that you have been reraising them with junk? Can they see into your mind? Unless you show hands a lot they would never know and give you credit for the flush everytime and would just fold every single time. You are assuming they know you bluff with crap and will call, which they obviously dont.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't really matter what cards you are holding. If I feel that someone's small bet is just positional I'm going to come over the top of them everytime, regardless of my cards. That's the beauty of pl and nl games. The one that sniffs out the most bullshit is the stronger player. Now I'm no Farha, and I have bluffed my entire stack into the stone nuts before in Omaha, but I can tell a weak player when I see one. That's when I'll come over the top. All I have to know is that he's got nothing. Makes no difference what they think I have if they're not willing to put their chips in the middle.

I strongly disagree that a c/c gives your hand away more than a c/r. I can understand that in a higher limit game, but not in a $50 game. Most players are loose-passive, and they rarely c/r without a great hand.

A c/c is riskier, but it's more +EV to try and get him to call a turn bet drawing to a boat, or induce a bluff.

[Spellmen]

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?page=view&hand=141064

I encounter this type of thing all the time, I don't think there is anything wrong with calling or raising at the $50 level

[TheSalche]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?page=view&hand=141064

I encounter this type of thing all the time, I don't think there is anything wrong with calling or raising at the $50 level

[/ QUOTE ]

difference there is that you have position on that guy ... and he was a donk to call down with 3rd nut flush after you raised him on the flop AND the turn

much more difficult to extract value out of this in EP

id suggest c/c flop, then pot turn if the board doesn't pair, make him pay to chase to the river