Why all the secrecy here?

[Tuco]

IMO, There are several problems with this forum. When posters ask about closing/opening new accounts for rakeback, the mods here are not as forthcoming as they should be. This vail of secrecy regarding rakeback/affiliates should not be something that 2+2 endorses.

Lets get it out in the open:

All sites with an MGR component to their affiliate program do rakeback. They may say they don't, but they do. Even the largest one(s). Not only that, they are active in their promotion of rakeback. Larger affiliates get individual trackers from whichever sites they want them from. They also get new rakeback accouts open for people with existing accounts.

So either the owners of this forum know that and don't tell, or they don't know. If they don't know, they aren't very well connected in the affiliate game and probably can't offer the new players the protection and service they need in this current environment. New players need the protection that some affiliates can offer. Personally, i'd much rather be under an affiliate that can do things like open a rakeback account without having to bother with the close old/open new account hassle. One that can resolve disputes immediately. Large affiliates can get closed accounts re-opened or do thing such as set higher cashout/buyin limits.

I can understand that www.ABCrackback.com (http://www.ABCrackback.com) doesnt tell you this, because they probably cant do things for new players that others can, so why point it out? I can't understand it here. This is supposed to be a forum for the good of the players. Clearly, it's not.

I find it hard to believe that the forum "moderators" here cannot offer rakeback to players that already have accounts at the desired site. Again, sites condone and promote this, so why not tell everyone whats really happening?

Please spare me the stealing players from other affiliates crap, cause most of the people that want rakeback accounts opened accounts directly at the sites. Some are under affiliates, but arent going to play without rakeback anyway. It's beside the point anyway, cause it's happening as we speak. The internet is a wonderful place with really no sheriff. You adapt to the changing environment or you get left behind. The sites are adapting by promoting rakeback, so affiliates should as well.

Also, the site doesnt care at all about protecting affiliates signups as this opening new accounts for players with existing accounts goes on all the time with their consent.

I hope this doesnt get deleted and gets some real discussion going about whats really going on out there in the rakeback/affiliate game.

Weather you like it or not, this is going on en masse.

Why not just be upfront about it?

Tuco.

[BusterStacks]

Because if you talk publicly about stealing players from other affiliates, you can get in deep [censored] from your affiliate manager. It has to take place behind closed doors for the protection of the affiliate.

[Tuco]

[ QUOTE ]
Because if you talk publicly about stealing players from other affiliates, you can get in deep [censored] from your affiliate manager. It has to take place behind closed doors for the protection of the affiliate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get in deep sh*t from the guy that is doing the switching of players? As I said, once a player discovers rakeback, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. He will either go to another room where he can get it, or find an affiliate that will switch him over. Either way the original affiliate loses.

I didnt say we had to talk about specific affiliates. Surely there can be discussion without saying "Buster, thanks for opening me a new rakeback account at ABC poker!"

Tuco.

[morgant]

So, we are damned if we do or we are damned if we dont. I had a full argument with Lorinda that we can do rakeback at Empire, and that the owners of empire are in full support of it. She fully says we cant and to prove that we can. Then you come here say we are being secrective and to be out in the open? Either you arent reading or you have an agenda

If i were to tell you that Euro moves players back to their original affiliate if they were reopened new accounts would you call me a liar? If i told you empire does the same would you also call me a liar? You make many broad sweeping strokes in your incoherent babble, please back up your claims that you make. If you say affiliates can do these things, we need to know what site they can do them on, because they all have their own intricacies. And yes some of this can be done, if someone asks 'hey my account got closed' i would tell them to email there affiliate as i have in countless other threads. And i have done this countless times for my players.

What is with all you god damn conspirators. We put this forum up and are acting in the best manner we know how. There is no cloak of secrecy or underhanded scheme. We kept raketracker.com out of sponsoring it so you little babies didnt have anything to cry about apparantly you can always find something. We havent deleted any threads that had any non spam comments in them, why would we now?

If you would like me to defend the size and connectedness of my affiliate program, please PM me, i guarantee you will be impressed and you will find the largest poker rakeback affiliate on the interent. There are certain subjects i cant discuss as it may jeopradize my affiliate program. I have never condoned closing then reopening an account, and i still dont. If you read that thread i told the person to go to another skin, is that not a solution? Are you that blind. I thought i respected you tuco, what is your agenda?

We opened this forum with a site affiliateEV.com which can help people become affiliates, not with raketracker.com we have not tried to gain a single rakeback player from this forum. My rakeback program is what set the standard for rakeback, it brought about a whole new level of customer service for the player, it provided statistics, individualized bonuses, and its the model from which all the other affiliate are running their sites. I dont need to point that out, its why i am still the biggest, the players settle into where they get the best product, and i am confident i offer it. I have the best combination of service, rewards, percentages, longevity, and professionalism on the web.

thanks for your well thought out post

[BusterStacks]

Yeah and hey, nobody can dispute your claim of all the best everything or their post gets deleted. Sounds like you win no matter what! nh

[Tuco]

[ QUOTE ]
So, we are damned if we do or we are damned if we dont. I had a full argument with Lorinda that we can do rakeback at Empire, and that the owners of empire are in full support of it. She fully says we cant and to prove that we can. Then you come here say we are being secrective and to be out in the open? Either you arent reading or you have an agenda

[/ QUOTE ]

Look man. Weather Lorinda likes it or not we both (along with alot of other affiliates) know it happening with the sites consent. Either way, let's talk about it in an open fourm.

[ QUOTE ]
If i were to tell you that Euro moves players back to their original affiliate if they were reopened new accounts would you call me a liar? If i told you empire does the same would you also call me a liar?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. All i'm saying is lets talk about these issues. I have yet to have anyone moved back that signed up through me and i suspect that it doesnt happen for you much either.

[ QUOTE ]
You make many broad sweeping strokes in your incoherent babble, please back up your claims that you make.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wrote my OP during a two hour span when I was spending time with my hyper two year old. Sorry if it wasnt clear. I'll summarize:

Why aren't you being honest with the readers here by talking about all the issues. Also, why start an open fourm and restrict what we can talk about?

[ QUOTE ]
What is with all you god damn conspirators. We put this forum up and are acting in the best manner we know how. There is no cloak of secrecy or underhanded scheme. We kept raketracker.com out of sponsoring it so you little babies didnt have anything to cry about apparantly you can always find something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down with the personal insults. All I said was I hoped that the thread didnt get deleted so we can have debate. It looks like your not capable of this without throwing a hissy fit.

[ QUOTE ]
If you would like me to defend the size and connectedness of my affiliate program, please PM me, i guarantee you will be impressed and you will find the largest poker rakeback affiliate on the interent. There are certain subjects i cant discuss as it may jeopradize my affiliate program. I have never condoned closing then reopening an account, and i still dont. If you read that thread i told the person to go to another skin, is that not a solution? Are you that blind. I thought i respected you tuco, what is your agenda?

[/ QUOTE ]

My agenda you keep referring to is to have an open discussion and debate of whats really go on in the rakeback/affiliate world.

Goody for you that you think you are the largest. I guarantee that your not, but what does it matter? If you are that large and have that much power, there are lots of things going on that you know would help members of this forum that are unknown to the average player. It is possible to talk about all this stuff without being specific.

[ QUOTE ]
We opened this forum with a site affiliateEV.com which can help people become affiliates, not with raketracker.com we have not tried to gain a single rakeback player from this forum. My rakeback program is what set the standard for rakeback, it brought about a whole new level of customer service for the player, it provided statistics, individualized bonuses, and its the model from which all the other affiliate are running their sites. I dont need to point that out, its why i am still the biggest, the players settle into where they get the best product, and i am confident i offer it. I have the best combination of service, rewards, percentages, longevity, and professionalism on the web.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Very subtle. You could have just said "not with our rakeback site" What is your agenda?

Tuco.

This is a nice forum for people to learn what rakeback is, but what purpose can there be for those with rakeback already?
We can't find out if a better deal is available (higher percentages). So what's the point?

Anytime someone starts discussing the 'game' of rakeback (what sites will and won't do, etc) the mods cut in with "you don't understand", "can't talk about it", or "PM me".

What other information is there to share?

And why are affiliates the mods? Any conflict of interest there? Almost makes me nostalgic for RGP.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
What is with all you god damn conspirators. We put this forum up and are acting in the best manner we know how.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is "all you god damn conspirators" really the best manner you know how to act?


[ QUOTE ]
I dont need to point that out, its why i am still the biggest, the players settle into where they get the best product, and i am confident i offer it. I have the best combination of service, rewards, percentages, longevity, and professionalism on the web.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your level of professionalism is apparent. If you are so confident, why are you afraid of the discussion of rates? Seems you should welcome all competitors if you really are the best.

[rwesty]

[ QUOTE ]
Your level of professionalism is apparent. If you are so confident, why are you afraid of the discussion of rates? Seems you should welcome all competitors if you really are the best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously affiliateEV is making way more cash than they deserve. Basically all affiliates are making more than they deserve. Eventually more information will be known, but until then all of the affiliates will work hard to keep the secrets to themselves and attempt to make the most money that they can. I have a feeling there will be some drastic changes in how rakeback is handled in the future. There's too much money being made too easily with too many secrets.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
I have the best combination of service, rewards, percentages, longevity, and professionalism on the web.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah so it's ok for you to talk about and mention your site but not for anyone else? Any time you'd like the claim in quotes disproven, you let me know.

[sublime]

Basically all affiliates are making more than they deserve. Eventually more information will be known, but until then all of the affiliates will work hard to keep the secrets to themselves and attempt to make the most money that they can. I have a feeling there will be some drastic changes in how rakeback is handled in the future. There's too much money being made too easily with too many secrets.

There really are no secrets. You could find out all there is to know in a few hours if you were ambitious enough.

Here is the problem with discussing rakeback %'s in laymen's terms (hopefully).

Joe asks about various rakeback %'s that are given.

Tim responds that he gets X%, which happens to be more than Joe has been offered by the affiliates he has contacted. Joe then demands he gets AT LEAST that %. Of course he WILL get it from some affiliate. The problem with this is Tim doesn't tell Joe, that:

He is a pro who plays 30k hands a month and has either been with this affiliate for a long period of time OR was referred by another player to the affiliate under the assumption that he would get this %.

Even if Tim did tell Joe this info, Joe wouldn't care. He now has someone saying he gets a certain % on a massive internet forum and he will use that % as his bargaining chip, despite the fact that he plays 1/2 and generates a very small % of revenue.

Joe gets the deal he wants. Posts about it here and the affiliate he got it from, and BAM. A new market price is set, that really cant be met by the affiliates without slashing thier profit margin to a point where its not even feasible to operate. The affiliate then has to ask for more money, to whiche the poker room has to say FU. End of rakeback.

The above may seem far fetched to many, but its really not. I get requests from players that make no sense, INCLUDING asking for %'s that the affiliates dont even get themselves.

Now, you can argue about what the point of this forum is all you want and whether it serves a purpose etc. But complaining about %'s being discussed is futile, as it REALLY is in the players interest that it remain a private matter.

[ QUOTE ]
Look man. Weather Lorinda likes it or not we both (along with alot of other affiliates) know it happening with the sites consent. Either way, let's talk about it in an open fourm.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought i did. To which she wrote the company an email, which their CS gave the standard no brain answer to. They allow it, end of story.

[ QUOTE ]
No. All i'm saying is lets talk about these issues. I have yet to have anyone moved back that signed up through me and i suspect that it doesnt happen for you much either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it has happened to me at both those sites several times. I dont par take in that activity, that is how we run our business. To much headache for us to do it. I replied in another thread how it can be accomplished. I encourage any other affiliates to impart their wisdom on this topic in here. Spam and affilaite links are however not allowed.


[ QUOTE ]
Why aren't you being honest with the readers here by talking about all the issues. Also, why start an open fourm and restrict what we can talk about?


[/ QUOTE ]

I am being honest, and i am talking about more than i already should. Some of the sites are already on my azz for some of the things i am saying in here. What are all the issues. And how can i comment on all of them, it has taken me years to understand the issues, and would take much time to explain all of it here. I am providing this forum, i am not the sole disseminator of information. There are other very knowledgable people on these topics.


[ QUOTE ]
Slow down with the personal insults. All I said was I hoped that the thread didnt get deleted so we can have debate. It looks like your not capable of this without throwing a hissy fit.


[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, i get carried away and frustrated. I want to fully answer questions, when i do, i get a)called a liar b) accused of running business(well i am....so??) and the finger pointers have agendas, or if not may not have the needed perspectives to discuss the topics. i need to keep my cool, i apologize.


[ QUOTE ]
My agenda you keep referring to is to have an open discussion and debate of whats really go on in the rakeback/affiliate world.

[/ QUOTE ]

So start doing so. If have information on the topics in this forum, why arent you talking about the rakeback/affilaite world, seems all the energies have been concentrated on how AEV and raketracker run their business and its effect on this forum. Please bring up some topics and impart your knowledge on them. THats what i bought this forum for. I am not responsible to stimulate discussion or answer questions. Please, we need some presence here, instead on the finger pointing.

[ QUOTE ]
Lol. Very subtle. You could have just said "not with our rakeback site" What is your agenda?


[/ QUOTE ]

In sincere honesty, i put my sites name not knowing who our readers are, my site has its own public face and i dont need to spam them in a forum that i own.

My agenda is to get rakeback for players, provide potential affiliates the access to provide it for them, and to disseminate information on a topic that has been banned on twoplustwo since just after i got here a couple years ago.

[rt1]

[ QUOTE ]

Obviously affiliateEV is making way more cash than they deserve. Basically all affiliates are making more than they deserve. Eventually more information will be known, but until then all of the affiliates will work hard to keep the secrets to themselves and attempt to make the most money that they can. I have a feeling there will be some drastic changes in how rakeback is handled in the future. There's too much money being made too easily with too many secrets.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] - he knows too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

come on dude, we setup this forum to help 2+2ers with affiliate / rakeback related questions. Just because we arent saying how much % we get and all that doesnt mean we are a secret organization. although, i did hear inthacup has ties to the illuminati.

go into best buy and ask an employee how much he makes, ask how much he is going to get off commission, then ask a manger how much the store makes. after that, call sony and ask how much they make. keep going, dont stop until you know what everyones paycheck is... after all it is your right to know... isnt it?

[rwesty]

The only real secret is the highest percentage that is possible. The reason it's a secret is probably because it is continuously changing and will continue to change. My problem with how rakeback is currently done is that it forces you to go through large affiliate to get the best deal. There's no reason that a high volume player shouldn't be able to deal directly with a site to get the same deal as large affiliates. For players like this the affiliates are not doing any service to the site, because they will be playing at that site regardless.

[MyTurn2Raise]

Yes there is...it takes time and administrative costs to compute the rakeback. The sites don't want to negotiate with thousands of separate players to decide the proper rakeback. Affiliates cover this by making hundreds of players act as one really big one. They do the negotiating for you and don't take up valuable site personnel time doing it.

[WarBus]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously affiliateEV is making way more cash than they deserve. Basically all affiliates are making more than they deserve. Eventually more information will be known, but until then all of the affiliates will work hard to keep the secrets to themselves and attempt to make the most money that they can. I have a feeling there will be some drastic changes in how rakeback is handled in the future. There's too much money being made too easily with too many secrets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't affiliates deserve what they make? If it is so easy everyone would be doing it. They put in the time. Reinvest profits on advertising, staff, websites, and many other expenses.

Because a few were motivated and innovative in acquiring players, they get to reap the benefits of thier efforts. But so do we. Without them, most of us wouldn't make as much as we do.

Just because we all wish that we'd have done it too, doesn't mean they don't deserve the rewards.

WarBus

[Adam22]

,

[sublime]

The only real secret is the highest percentage that is possible

Its not a secret, its just different in EVERY single case. Who the player is (as in how much revenue he generates), how he was signed up, his personal relationship with the affiliate, WHO the affiliate is (some offer higher %'s, but shitty service and vice versa)

There's no reason that a high volume player shouldn't be able to deal directly with a site to get the same deal as large affiliates.

Its not humanly possible for one person to generate as much revenue as even a small affiliate. And why would an affiliate manager at a poker site want to deal directly with numerous people when he can have a SPOC to do it for him?

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah so it's ok for you to talk about and mention your site but not for anyone else? Any time you'd like the claim in quotes disproven, you let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Morgan 1-0 Buster

Lori

[LoveDub]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes there is...it takes time and administrative costs to compute the rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]
Automating this is ridiculously easy, and requires next to nothing in costs (1 developer's time). The payment system does everything including website reporting; beyond the initial (rather short) development cycle, what time and administrative costs are there? Advertising? Taken care of here... Hosting? Negligible.

Aside from the odd event organized for the players, being an affiliate is pretty much hands- and expense- free.

[Sandstone]

[ QUOTE ]
Aside from the odd event organized for the players, being an affiliate is pretty much hands- and expense- free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, you clearly know all there is to know about running a large scale affiliate business. I expect you'll be making thousands of dollars off of unsuspecting chumps by the end of the month.

[morgant]

HAHAHAHAH

have you ever tried to get an advertisement on twoplustwo???

have you ever tried to deal with a poker sites customer service?

if so, take that instance, square it, then multiply by it the number of players you have(in my case, over 3500). thats just for customer support.

i have 3 customer support people working for raketracker.com
myself and another managing them, dealing with sites, creating new business, marketing
and a full time brilliant programmer, who also helps in the above.

and guess what?

THERE STILL ARENT ENOUGH HOURS IN THE DAY............

edit.
i totally forgot all administrative things. paying players, paying employees, paying taxes, accounting, legal concerns.

dood, i am really sick of you fish saying there is nothing to this. please, give it a go. if you can build a successful affil. business in 3 months time, and say it was no sweat, i will match your earnings over that time period.

[Sandstone]

[ QUOTE ]

Aside from the odd event organized for the players, being an affiliate is pretty much hands- and expense- free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, I'm going to quote this piece of idiocy again because I'm honestly not sure how this retarded perception of affiliates ever got started.

Do you honestly think affiliates just spend all day sitting at their computer hitting refresh on their Account page just to see how much of that sweet sweet rake you've generated for them? That we sit at our computers with a massive erection beating it off to your ever increasing MGR?

[censored] that: Affiliatedom is grunt work.

You're running a business; and in most cases you're doing it by yourself, or, maybe, with one or two primary helpers.

You do webwork. You do design work. You do advertising. You go fist fighting with other affiliates for the high volume players. You try and brainstorm ways to keep one step ahead of the hundreds of other affiliates who want to steal your ideas and open up their own version of [generic noun]rake.com.

On top of it all, you're trying to provide excellent customer service to hundreds of degenerate poker players, each of which views you as a giant scum sucking leech getting rich off of their hard work.

Yeah, its a regular bucket o'[censored] fun.

With that said: I don't intend to represent the views and opinions of all the other affiliates out there. I'm sure they all love you like you were their children and I'm just a bitter angry man because they won't refill my Xanex prescription.

[LoveDub]

[ QUOTE ]

have you ever tried to get an advertisement on twoplustwo???


[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly it's difficult to get advertising in this forum, with your 6 placeholders keeping the competition out.

[ QUOTE ]

have you ever tried to deal with a poker sites customer service?


[/ QUOTE ]

I've worked in a poker sites' customer service department.

I'm not saying that running an affiliate business is easy, but a lot of the things you've mentioned are or should be automated. Paying your players and staff doesn't entail you physically going to the bank, drawing some cash, going to the recipient's bank, depositing the money, etc. A lot of this is batch processing of information, with automated mailers inbetween to keep players happy with updates. Accounting is handled by an accounting system.

The way you put things, you would think that you were putting everything in double-entry paper ledgers and using a calculator to add things up at the end of the month.

[ QUOTE ]

dood, i am really sick of you fish saying there is nothing to this.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the simple fact that you regard us as fish says a lot. That would make you the shark, right?

[LoveDub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Aside from the odd event organized for the players, being an affiliate is pretty much hands- and expense- free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, I'm going to quote this piece of idiocy again because I'm honestly not sure how this retarded perception of affiliates ever got started.


[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, I didn't think that through when I put it down. There are many ancilliary areas of running a business which require a lot of resources and time - same as any other business.

If you want to know where this is coming from, it's simple:

The perception is that there's very little value-add. An affiliate's core business is self-promotion and marketing in order to generate registrations and to keep players generating rake.

Anything beyond that is overhead. Hardly altruistic, but then business is business.

A previous moderator said that this forum was setup to help players with questions about rakeback and affiliates.

Come on! We're all playing this game for the money. We know you're in this for the money too.

I have no problem with affiliates making money off my play, as long as I get a decent cut of it back. How will I know if it's decent? Transparency.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with affiliates making money off my play, as long as I get a decent cut of it back. How will I know if it's decent? Transparency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try this... go to each of the poker room websites where you play, click on the affiliate link, you will have all the transparency you need!

At the end of the day, you need to remember, that rakeback was created by some smart affiliates not the poker rooms. So, if you like it, you should be thankful for the affiliates willing to pay it.

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]

And why are affiliates the mods? Any conflict of interest there?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a big problem in this forum IMHO.

Hard to openly discuss anything when those MODS in control have personal and financial interests and do not let everything be openly discussed and contradictory posts often get deleted. Serious conflicts of interest all over this forum. Do the Mods pay advertising fees to 2+2? What about all the feee advertising / self promotion that is going on.

[morgant]

hahah, man. again when i said you, i mean YOU specifically. the place holders are there waiting for people to buy adspace. we didnt put up our flahsing banners in all the empty spaces so as not to overtake this place with my sites, we did that for our viewers benefit, and so this wouldnt look like the internet bonus forum, glad it is so well received. THis FORUM IS OPEN TO ADVERTISEMENT FROM ANY SITE, ANY PRODUCT, ANYTHING.

no kidding sherlock. i am the one who brought the most amount of automation to this affilaite rakeback business. where do you think all these sites developed there sites from? my site automates as much as i can get it to. otherwise we couldnt process the amount of business and players we do. i built a site that tracks players just the same as the affilaite sites like tradal.net. but i still need to pay players. only several payment options offer batch payments. most are individual account transfers. yes thats roughly 3000 of them a month. Your short sightedness is astounding.

calling you a fish is meaning this.

fish(adj.) meaning uninformed, thinks he knows more than he actually does, acts on those assumptions.
syn. LoveDub

and from what you wrote, it sounded exactly as if you were saying running an affilaite business is easy.

sorry for my ranting and harsh tone, but i need to voice myself away from constantly being tied to these sites. i prefer to do it in public, if i am going to do it in private regardless, is their a difference? in my opinion, no.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Do the Mods pay advertising fees to 2+2?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't know the answer to this, there's no way you're informed enough to offer a valid opinion on what "problems" the forum has.

Hint: try the stickied FAQ.

[iMcompliKted]

I think you have some very good points, but overestimate the influence of bigger affiliates. Even big affiliates are in danger of being shut down, actually more so because of the amount of money involved. So I think this forum is helpful, but in many cases you will have to find a person who has the information you want or read between the lines.

[morgant]

[ QUOTE ]
hope this doesnt get deleted and gets some real discussion going about whats really going on out there in the rakeback/affiliate game.

Weather you like it or not, this is going on en masse.

Why not just be upfront about it?


[/ QUOTE ]


i hate to bring all this up again. but tuco, everything you listed in this OP, is a nicely veiled spam of what you offer for your affiliate business.

now that many have followed you, arent those affiliate accounts you opened for people frozen?

you made a lot of claims and a lot of jabs at affiliates, seems that you talked the talk.........

if you would like some advice, its a fine line of what can and cant be disclosed. i offered you my insights on this when you originally approached all the ex skins affilaites, but you wanted all the business for you and CPC. A lot of this issue we have with party and rakeback IMO has been created by you, al, and CPC. I am not trying to attack, but, now that things have gone down the road that I, cup, and rt1 foresaw, i can discuss it, without being accused of spamming, censoring, or some other such BS.

People listened to you and al and now their accounts are frozen. Are you guys collecting all the mgr for yourselves and CPC? If so that was a major swift one you guys pulled over on this place, and i will be the whistle blower, even though many wont like it. If i am wrong, please let me know and i can remove this post.

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, There are several problems with this forum. When posters ask about closing/opening new accounts for rakeback, the mods here are not as forthcoming as they should be. This vail of secrecy regarding rakeback/affiliates should not be something that 2+2 endorses.

This is supposed to be a forum for the good of the players. Clearly, it's not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this to be true, unfortunately. If people can't speak openly, this forum is pointless.

-ptmusic

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
I am being honest, and i am talking about more than i already should. Some of the sites are already on my azz for some of the things i am saying in here. What are all the issues. And how can i comment on all of them, it has taken me years to understand the issues, and would take much time to explain all of it here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly appreciate your efforts, but you and other affiliates have no business being mods here.

This forum was a nice idea, but its execution is incredibly lame.

If you can't openly communicate about the subject matter, and you can't allow others to openly communicate about the subject matter, then you have created a very bizarre forum indeed.

-ptmusic

[morgant]

tuco posted this because, myself and my other partners said, 'dont do anything yet, let the dust settle' current affilaites do not have party approval. WELL GUESS WHAT? those affiliates who went under CPC now have frozen accounts, the op quickly changed his tune of this post and wanted to stifle any talks about party and rakeback. NOW TELL ME, who is propogating the secrecy?

We only censor spam.

[morgant]

pt, please direct me to something where we havent allowed open communications? in the first week maybe, but we were in uncharted waters, recently, we have been letting the users be the moderators.

since day 1 we only delete threads that are alerted to us. what is your agenda? the thread we are debating in, was created by someone with a VERY BIG AGENDA. And in slyly discussing his agenda he slandered my operation. I would like you to take note of the current status of affairs, and WHERE IS HE??

[ptmusic]

[ QUOTE ]
pt, please direct me to something where we havent allowed open communications? in the first week maybe, but we were in uncharted waters, recently, we have been letting the users be the moderators.

since day 1 we only delete threads that are alerted to us. what is your agenda? the thread we are debating in, was created by someone with a VERY BIG AGENDA. And in slyly discussing his agenda he slandered my operation. I would like you to take note of the current status of affairs, and WHERE IS HE??

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no agenda other than to learn about rakeback. As you can see from my post count and date of joining, I am not a gimmick account.

How have you stifled open communication? How about the fact that actual affiliate names have not been mentioned practically ever here? I'm not blaming you personally, but that seems to be the way it is.

Here, I'll try out a little test by starting a new thread. Let's have a little discussion as to the pros and cons of raketherake and thisisthenuts. I am not associated with either one. I'd like to know what others think about these companies. That should be the type of discussion taking place on this forum.

I don't really care about OP's agenda. I don't really care about your squabbles with other affiliates. But I do care that some posters with green colors are actually affiliates, and that makes me distrust this entire forum.

Mainly I care about what deals are out there, and who is the most reliable.

I have been PM'd several times now. Should I trust those that are PMing me? I have no clue, and this forum isn't helping.

-ptmusic

[morgant]

then you havent been reading it. we stickied not to trust pm affilaites, as many have echoed in posts throughout this forum. we provide threads on affilaites for anyone who advertises here. we want to provide info about rakeback, but to do so, we need income to provide for the forum, and that is from advertising, as we didnt take the angle of only promoting ourselves(which would be a worthless forum IMO)

your hypothetical thread will be deleted. we have the opportunity for advertisers to represent themselves here. if they choose not to, i cant justify them receiving this free exposure on a forum i provide with my money and time. your not trusting this forum is your decision. i can assure you that myself and the mods have an impeccable reputation and have been leaders in the rakeback business for several years. when thisisthenuts has questions, he IM's me for answers(used to), just a little about me and my site/sites.

i will also objectively say, that both sites you mention are both reliable and provide a top notch service. if you want forum discussion about them, go somewhere they advertise, rakerebatereview.com

morg.

[LImitPlayer]

Im sorry, but are you saying that the players accounts are frozen or the affiliates accounts are frozen?

How can the affiliates who signed up under CPC be frozen and not CPC for singing them up?

[morgant]

the affilaite accounts opened up under cpc are frozen. meaning the affilaites arent getting stats for their players. so the players arent receiving rakeback.

[PantherZ]

[ QUOTE ]
the affilaite accounts opened up under cpc are frozen. meaning the affilaites arent getting stats for their players. so the players arent receiving rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did Party or CPC volunteer this information to you? If not, how do you know?

[Tuco]

Morgant,

My OP was made before the whole situation started. I've been here at 2+2 since close to the begining and really am not sure that I like the fact that a one of the forums has a much different set of rules than the others. That was the point of my OP.

I also posted this before we got into discussion together on working out a way to go forward. Now that I have, im confident in the fact that you guys are not using this forum as a raketracker mouthpiece.

[ QUOTE ]
now that many have followed you, arent those affiliate accounts you opened for people frozen?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, as are all new affiliate accounts created after last Sunday. We thought we could bring alot of the RB sites together under one umbrella and put a stop to all the bad things that seem to happen in the RB game.

[ QUOTE ]
you made a lot of claims and a lot of jabs at affiliates, seems that you talked the talk.........


[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know what this means. If you are saying that I took jabs at you, it was only because I didn't have a clear understanding of what this forum was about. I do now, but it really wasn't apparent from the start.

[ QUOTE ]
if you would like some advice, its a fine line of what can and cant be disclosed

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are addressing a post from two weeks ago. I wasnt aware of how much Party hated the RB discussion as I am now.

[ QUOTE ]
i offered you my insights on this when you originally approached all the ex skins affilaites, but you wanted all the business for you and CPC

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said above, the intent was to bring all the affiliates together and put them in a position that they had to follow our (read: Party;s) rules. This would have put an end to all of the backhanded crap that goes on that Party hates, or they would lose their affiliation.

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of this issue we have with party and rakeback IMO has been created by you, al, and CPC. I am not trying to attack, but, now that things have gone down the road that I, cup, and rt1 foresaw, i can discuss it, without being accused of spamming, censoring, or some other such BS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heres the bottom line. The reality is that RB websites had no chance of dealing with Party after the break-up. I'm sure you disagree with this, but even if you did get a deal worked out with Party, what would be your security once you brought all your players back? They hate RB sites and nothing they would have done to you guys after they got their players back should surprise me or you. They see the players that left as their players.

Your opinion that we created a bad situation is wrong. To blame us for the spamming, stealing of players and other things that have gone on in the last week, as well as since the origin of the RB business is merely you trying to find someone to blame. I really had no idea of:

a. The size of the business.
b. The underhanded, scummy things some of the websites are willing to do to get one more player than the other guy.

[ QUOTE ]
People listened to you and al and now their accounts are frozen. Are you guys collecting all the mgr for yourselves and CPC?

[/ QUOTE ]

You, and anyone that did get started with us can rest assured that if we get paid for ANY player they brought to us, so will the affiliate. Period.

[ QUOTE ]
If so that was a major swift one you guys pulled over on this place, and i will be the whistle blower, even though many wont like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me state this again. If we get one dime for any players you, or any other affiliate brought us, the affiliate will get paid as well.

As far as whisle blowing goes, i'm really not sure what you are refering to. Feel free to post anything and everything we said or tried to do in the last week. Feel free to post my name if you like, as I have nothing to hide.

I only wanted to try and stop all the "COME GET 26% RAKEBACK AT PARTY" posts, as well as anything that put a deal for all of us in jeopardy. It was in all of our best interests to figure out a way that was beneficial to:

1. The player
2. The affiliates
3. Partypoker

Everything I did this week was to achieve this goal.

Tuco.

[LImitPlayer]

OK I have a question,

If Party doesn't allow rakeback and CPC signed up all these affiliates under a rakeback plan, why isnt CPC's accounts frozen?

"Do they have a get out of jail free card or something?"

[iMcompliKted]

Tuco said, "It was in all of our best interests to figure out a way that was beneficial to:

1. The player
2. The affiliates
3. Partypoker

Everything I did this week was to achieve this goal."

Tuco, you've failed miserably on 3 accounts.

[scrapperdog]

This post reminds me of a person who thinks they are smart because they know wresting is fake. Tuco will be bragging to friends and family about his insider wresting knowledge, while everyone else cringes.

[AlexSem]

Not to single you out but your claims of hard work are amusing at very best.

Why don't you be professional about it?


Wanna compare your 'hard work' to people who gotta work double shifts in a factory to make a living?


You get paid well. Wanna publish how much you made per month as a result of running a rakeback site? Screw this "I work so hard" [censored].

[ QUOTE ]

no kidding sherlock. i am the one who brought the most amount of automation to this affilaite rakeback business. where do you think all these sites developed there sites from? my site automates as much as i can get it to. otherwise we couldnt process the amount of business and players we do. i built a site that tracks players just the same as the affilaite sites like tradal.net.


[/ QUOTE ]

I got a tear in my eye. How about acting professional and not gloating how hard you work and how much you've done for the community (that is a pun, this is driven by how much goes in your pocket, stop pretending otherwise)


[ QUOTE ]

but i still need to pay players. only several payment options offer batch payments. most are individual account transfers. yes thats roughly 3000 of them a month. Your short sightedness is astounding.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you hire a little brother or a friend you trust to do this for you at 10$/hour. That's crazy work you're doing.



Bottom line:

Please stop advertising in every second post you make, it's sickening. "I did this, I did that, I have this many affil, I automated that, I am what everyone looks up at"

What the [censored].

[witeknite]

You play 30/60 for a living right Alex?

Wanna compare your 'hard work' to people who gotta work double shifts in a factory to make a living?

WiteKnite

[AlexSem]

[ QUOTE ]
You play 30/60 for a living right Alex?

Wanna compare your 'hard work' to people who gotta work double shifts in a factory to make a living?

WiteKnite

[/ QUOTE ]


I never claimed my "work" to be hard.

I always considered it a fluke and a blessing. I'd like to add that I feel terrible for all my friends because they work twice as hard yet achieve twice as little.


That's why it pisses me off when these people making six figures monthly sitting on their ass promoting rakeback complain about their hard work.

My friend working in IT has been going to work and working overtime for the past month and he earns maybe 40k/year.

[morgant]

i have made a zillion a disclaimers that i am not complaining. i love the work that i do, but it is a round the clock job. when several people make posts that affiliates sit on there azzes and count their money, i happen to know first hand how far from the truth this is.

ho hum. i will shut up, and let you flame away..... /images/graemlins/wink.gif enjoy

[witeknite]

I just thought it a funny thing for a pro to say. Tell your friend I sincerly feel his pain. If you don't already know, ask him what PEBCAK stands for. It's sad and amusing.

WiteKnite

[Catt]

So, just to clarify the facts a bit:

1. PokerAl & Tuco are affiliates that worked together to try and bring many of the existing skin RB providers to Party as subaffiliates to CPC. PokerAl may be a honcho at CPC.

2. The purpose of doing so was to try and impose some form of acceptable standards regarding business practices / advertising / code of conduct that would not ruffle Party's feathers.

3. The aforementioned consortium succeeded in recruiting some portion of the existing skin RB affiliates under this umbrella.

4. The imposition or intended imposition of a code of conduct, particularly surrounding the issue of RB or "player rewards" or whatever you want to call it, did not succeed; claims of RB at Party were soon all over the place, as were threads regarding opening new accounts / new funding sources, etc.

5. Party got pretty pissed off at the spectacle.

6. In response to the spectacle, Party froze the sub-affiliate accounts that were recruited under the umbrella. The status of those accounts is currently murky. The accounts may be closed; they may be reopened.

7. Even if the subaffiliate accounts are reopened, individual player statements may or may not be available to the consortium or the subaffiliates recruited to the consortium.

8. Party may or may not make affiliate payments to the consortium (or the subaffiliates recruited to the consortium), regardless of whether any such payments are provided in tandem with individual player statements.

9. Everything is up in the air because all the subaffiliates are waiting on word / negotiating with Party.

Is all this accurate? If not, what is inaccurate?

Thanks.

Edit: And delete this post if it is unhelpful to what's happening in this whole mess, please, then PM why it was unhelpful. Thanks.

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
So, just to clarify the facts a bit:

1. PokerAl & Tuco are affiliates that worked together to try and bring many of the existing skin RB providers to Party as subaffiliates to CPC. PokerAl may be a honcho at CPC.

2. The purpose of doing so was to try and impose some form of acceptable standards regarding business practices / advertising / code of conduct that would not ruffle Party's feathers.

3. The aforementioned consortium succeeded in recruiting some portion of the existing skin RB affiliates under this umbrella.

4. The imposition or intended imposition of a code of conduct, particularly surrounding the issue of RB or "player rewards" or whatever you want to call it, did not succeed; claims of RB at Party were soon all over the place, as were threads regarding opening new accounts / new funding sources, etc.

5. Party got pretty pissed off at the spectacle.

6. In response to the spectacle, Party froze the sub-affiliate accounts that were recruited under the umbrella. The status of those accounts is currently murky. The accounts may be closed; they may be reopened.

7. Even if the subaffiliate accounts are reopened, individual player statements may or may not be available to the consortium or the subaffiliates recruited to the consortium.

8. Party may or may not make affiliate payments to the consortium (or the subaffiliates recruited to the consortium), regardless of whether any such payments are provided in tandem with individual player statements.

9. Everything is up in the air because all the subaffiliates are waiting on word / negotiating with Party.

10. The great eye, flaming and lidless, sees all that we do here. He is seeking the rake, seeking it always. It is precious to him.

Is all this accurate? If not, what is inaccurate?

Thanks.

Edit: And delete this post if it is unhelpful to what's happening in this whole mess, please, then PM why it was unhelpful. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot one.

[witeknite]

POTD

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
So, just to clarify the facts a bit:

1. PokerAl & Tuco are affiliates that worked together to try and bring many of the existing skin RB providers to Party as subaffiliates to CPC. PokerAl may be a honcho at CPC.

2. The purpose of doing so was to try and impose some form of acceptable standards regarding business practices / advertising / code of conduct that would not ruffle Party's feathers.

3. The aforementioned consortium succeeded in recruiting some portion of the existing skin RB affiliates under this umbrella.

4. The imposition or intended imposition of a code of conduct, particularly surrounding the issue of RB or "player rewards" or whatever you want to call it, did not succeed; claims of RB at Party were soon all over the place, as were threads regarding opening new accounts / new funding sources, etc.

5. Party got pretty pissed off at the spectacle.

6. In response to the spectacle, Party froze the sub-affiliate accounts that were recruited under the umbrella. The status of those accounts is currently murky. The accounts may be closed; they may be reopened.

7. Even if the subaffiliate accounts are reopened, individual player statements may or may not be available to the consortium or the subaffiliates recruited to the consortium.

8. Party may or may not make affiliate payments to the consortium (or the subaffiliates recruited to the consortium), regardless of whether any such payments are provided in tandem with individual player statements.

9. Everything is up in the air because all the subaffiliates are waiting on word / negotiating with Party.

Is all this accurate? If not, what is inaccurate?

Thanks.

Edit: And delete this post if it is unhelpful to what's happening in this whole mess, please, then PM why it was unhelpful. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that deserves a sticky.

[TeeEffDee]

[ QUOTE ]
6. In response to the spectacle, Party froze the sub-affiliate accounts that were recruited under the umbrella. The status of those accounts is currently murky. The accounts may be closed; they may be reopened.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes the mods of this forum look smart, right? They said to take a wait and see approach. This makes a donkey like me that rushed right out and made a new account with a sub-affiliate of Card Player Cruises look like a....donkey, right?

Have I been had? Did Party just stick it to me and my affiliate? Was this "just business?" I've never been on the giving or receiving end of this type of deal so I'm confused.

Party and Card Player Cruises had this planned all along, right?

[scrapperdog]

Anyone have a guess if the CPC affiliates are shitcanned for good?