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View Full Version : KK ugly flop.

DoomSlice
10-03-2005, 05:05 PM
Just making sure...

PP 1/2 Full ring

Villain is 60/5/.5 , your standard passive fish.

Hero is BB with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Villain is MP

PF:
Villain calls, SB completes, Hero raises, both call.

Flop (6SB): A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, Hero ??????

What does betting accomplish here besides trying to convince him that I'm not afraid of the A or the spades (he'll definately call all the way down with an A and any spade, maybe even no spade).

Anyway, disregarding my own afterthoughts:
Hero bets, Villain calls, SB folds

Turn (4BB): 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero?????

Time to give up? I'd like to hear thoughts.
10-03-2005, 05:14 PM
As scary as this flop is, I think you are facing another K,Q, J, or T with or without a straight draw or a lone spade sightly more often than a made hand, so you could keep value betting. That said ...

The problem is, if your opponent doesn't have anything, he isn't likely to call many more bets, so the times you are ahead you win very little and the times you are behind you might lose a lot. Ax or two pair or a flopped straight is likely even though he is playing slow -- he may be scared of the flush.

I think checking it down is fine.
aces_dad
10-03-2005, 05:23 PM
We don't have position and thus checking down may not be an option.

Any post flop reads besides will call down with any A or spade? Will he call down with mid pair on straight? If he's willing to call down with worse than TP then I think we should bet the turn as he'll peel with any spade. Given that he's playing so many hands he's more likely to not have an A than have one.
tyler_cracker
10-03-2005, 05:24 PM
Bet/fold the turn. Check the river UI.
10-03-2005, 05:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold the turn. Check the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be a leak but this is how I play it.
Disconnected
10-03-2005, 09:28 PM
This may be total spewage, but with a VPIP of 60, I'm not giving credit for an ace, and if he's got a spade, I don't want him getting to the river free. Also, he may be calling down with a Q or J.

I would bet/fold the turn for value, and to avoid giving a free card. On the river, if a spade comes up, I think that's a time for a Clarkmeister. Anything else depends on how likely he is to call with a worse hand, but I'd probably bet/fold a river blank, too.
10-03-2005, 10:03 PM
Never give up! Never surrender!

err yeah... you have KK, there are a million hands you beat here, any K any Q any J any T any spade just to name a few? Even a passive underpair against someone this loose. Bet dont let him draw for free, the flush hasnt hit yet.

So yeah, bet/fold the turn, im tempted to bet/call the river UI too
numeri
10-03-2005, 10:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So yeah, bet/fold the turn, im tempted to bet/call the river UI too

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean bet/fold the river, right?

FWIW, I think betting the flop, bet/folding the turn, and checking behind UI on the river is the play.
irishpint
10-03-2005, 10:51 PM
I'm betting every street. If I am raised I'm folding. Seriously, not betting anywhere here is pretty bad, IMO. This guy is going to call to the river w/ any pair (Q, J) and PP, and any spade. He'll probably call w/ 87s of hearts, too, so why not let him?
MikeSpicoli
10-03-2005, 10:52 PM
I think it is a bit weak/tight to automatically put him on an A. IMO, you are in front on the flop so bet. Bet the turn aswell.If anoter spade hits on the river then check/fold.
10-03-2005, 10:56 PM
How can you check behind oop?? I figure if your gonna bet/fold that river UI then you should just check/call. If no spade falls you simply cant fold there for max +ev.

But i think you have to bet, and once you bet there is enough money in the pot not to be able to fold.
Redd
10-03-2005, 10:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm betting every street. If I am raised I'm folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is basically my plan against this Villain. He's uaully behind and usually paying to draw. I bet-fold any turn/river spade as well; does anybody think that's spewing?
aK13
10-03-2005, 10:59 PM
Bet/fold every street. I don't think there's any other way to play it.
TomBrooks
10-04-2005, 02:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Never give up! Never surrender!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are defeated, swear by Grabthar's hammer and by the sons of Worvan - that you shall be avenged.
DCWildcat
10-04-2005, 02:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold every street. I don't think there's any other way to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]