An Introduction and a question

I have been beating 25$ and lower for 6 months on Doyle's room now. My play is and always has been intuitive, If I had to rely on my math skills I would prolly fry!
I have skimmed through a couple dozen poker books which helped me not lose $ as I was beginning, but I still had to learn alot of lessons the hard way. SNG poker at first was like trying to read a book with my face a half inch from the page, I couldn't understand the big picture, I had no Idea how long the long run is for you guys that play 1000s of these while multi tabling.
I was always just single tabling my ass off at these low limits which probably made for a great ROI (I didn't keep records) but it wasn't optimal for $/hr, and every Bad beat and swing hurt and was very discouraging.
For me failure isn't an option I just got out of the Air force and I am going to make this my living. Last month I cashed out 900 from doyles room, which along with a $500 monthly retirement check I will have my very inexpensive bills covered untill I improve my game.
I have been lurking 2+2 for a couple of days now and I have decided to become involved. Reading posts about ROI bubble play and other things I'd already thought about but never had a word do describe has been encouraging and eye opening.
Raptor is my fav. poster as I've yet to see him use a # in a post -holla

I am here to stay as a 2+2er. I'm gonna to be the guy with 5000 posts and stories of a 70 buy in downswing at the 109s
(I have never had that kind of $ in my life)
Lame tired intro aside. I am gonna get right into a question.


I have heard that alot of guys 8+ tabling pretty much pass on anything less than AA KK AK and maybe QQ in levels 1-3
Well, first off I am not yet comfortable doing any more than 4 tables. So I was wondering If this high preflop standard is considered optimal early? or is it because you have so many tables running at once you dont have the time to get involved in other speculative hands. If you were playing 25$< buy ins what are your starting requirements early and how do you play them preflop? Also am I an idiot for playing on Doyle's room? I have heard it is a tight site.

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I'm gonna to ...post stories of a 70 buy in downswing at the 109s


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Please never do this.

Many of the posters play more than 3-4 hands early, raptor only does this cuz he's a bot. Welcome to the forums /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mike28]

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I have been lurking 2+2 for a couple of days now

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Welcome.

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Raptor is my fav. poster as I've yet to see him use a # in a post -holla

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now leave.








Just kidding. As far as your question about lvls 1-3, I don't see much of a difference. Sure if you're only playing 1-4 tables you can pay more attention and make more "plays" or whatever based on reads but it's not worth it at the lower limits. All the chips are won in the late game, so why get involved early with marginal holdings? From the 55s down it's all about pushbotting.

If you want to play SNGs, move to the party network. I don't know Doyle's structure (guessing t1500 stacks) but the party network is where it's at. More players, more tables, t800 so higher $/hr rate. Easy decision

holla

aloha

[ClockWyze]

I currently 8 table the 109's - although I subscribe to the tight weak style of play for the first 1-4 levels.. I certainly don't pass on anything less then QQ - set value (if the price is right) in the early levels accounts for many of my double ups.. a set is easier to play then top pair with AK..

but this is me - you got to play your own game homie!! -
if you think you have an edge over your opponents with postflop play.. get involved!

I can't speak for anyone that 12 tables.. but playing 8 tables .. with practice.. and two monitors.. is easy - particularly in the first 3 levels.. this is when I read this forum.. or take notes

Just play your own game playa!! - and get off Doyle's room.. who wants to look at his ugly face all afternoon!

cheers.. and happy retirement

[schwza]

if you're playing 10000000 tables, your time is too valuable/scarce to screw around with "marginal" hands like JJ/AQ. for the normals, not limping 55 behind a couple of limpers in the first two levels is a sin.

welcome to the forum.

Doyle's has 8 min rounds 20/40, 30/60, 50/100, 100/200, 150/300, 200/400 etc. blinds you start with 2,000.
What is pushbotting?
How do I quote?

[bluefeet]

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How do I quote?

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Welcome Mr.Flex! I was an AirForce guy myself (10yrs in Miss/N.Carolina/Alabama).

Quote: Hit "Quote" instead of "Reply"

[schwza]

pushbot = when you get to the later rounds (~10x bb's or fewer) you go all-in or fold pre-flop. the 2+2 bible is to play very tight early and then push-bot your way into the money.

to quote an entire response, click "quote" instead of "reply." to make a quote, use the "instant ubb code" below where you type. quote is bottom right.

[mike28]

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if you're playing 10000000 tables, your time is too valuable/scarce to screw around with "marginal" hands like JJ/AQ. for the normals, not limping 55 behind a couple of limpers in the first two levels is a sin.

welcome to the forum.

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I'm not saying jj and 22+ are marginal (well i guess i will) but def limp them for set value early. (derr yes at the higher buyins position affects this but not at the 11s)

and yes getting caught up with aq early is a sin

holla

aloha

[the_joker]

I usually limp with any pocket pair after 2 limpers in levels 1 and 2 and maybe level 3 depending on how many chips I have. It probably depends on the structure as to how to play early on. On Party, you only get 800 chips at the 33's and below, so you just can't be limpin a lot with drawing hands or many times you won't have many chips left when it get to level 4. On sites with more chips it may (or may not) be ok to be looser.

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pushbot = when you get to the later rounds (~10x bb's or fewer) you go all-in or fold pre-flop. the 2+2 bible is to play very tight early and then push-bot your way into the money.

to quote an entire response, click "quote" instead of "reply." to make a quote, use the "instant ubb code" below where you type. quote is bottom right.

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I feel like a baby bird taking his first flight thanks.
lemme throw in a little /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[raptor517]

its funny.. most of the people that know me in real life a completely different view of me than people that just read my posts on the forum. im breaking the game down to a beatable level for the average player that posts on this forum. meaning, smaller stakes stuff.

when im playing the 109s+, there is seldom anyone playing more hands than me, as i dont play 209385092809235 tables. so many pots are up for grabs its sick. i love donking around with all sorts of goofy hands. makes people mad. its fun.

as far as doyles room goes.. switch to party, sign up for rakeback, and thank me later. holla

Isn't anybody scared all this stuff will leak out?? I mean shouldn't this site be a secret? How long before all this action dries up?? Has it already started to? I mean, it seems to me if a fish can deposit $$ on a poker site he can lose a buyin, come here and wise up. How long has party poker been crazy??

[HighestCard]

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Isn't anybody scared all this stuff will leak out?? I mean shouldn't this site be a secret? How long before all this action dries up?? Has it already started to? I mean, it seems to me if a fish can deposit $$ on a poker site he can lose a buyin, come here and wise up. How long has party poker been crazy??

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Most fish arnt willing to put in the time to improve their game. They are playing for fun, not for money.

Also, a few that are dilligently trying to win hit a string of variance which causes some potentially winning players to "lose it"

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Welcome Mr.Flex! I was an AirForce guy myself (10yrs in Miss/N.Carolina/Alabama).



[/ QUOTE ] Georgia here. I hate the south, I'm from northern california. need constant Prozac IV just to live here. Moving is a priority after i get the scratch

[the_joker]

I'm sure people have been saying this since Super System was published. People play craps, roulette, etc., when it's impossible to win long term. I guess thankfully many people treat poker the same way and don't care enough to put in the effort to beat the game.

Also, I'm sure many people don't share all their tricks on this forum. To be top-notch, I think you need to be creative and come up with some of your own tricks.

This is actually the style I've had to teach myself. It's funny to actually hear other people say it's right. (tight early, steal late) I also love the term "spite call" lol it is so true. I love watching a fed up fish with plenty of chips left call my push with a 10 3 just cuz he thinks i'm raising too much (unfortunately sometimes I'm pushing with a dominated 9 3 when he does this!!!) I may be too agressive late. Are there hand standards for pushing? I've just been pretty agro in late play up untill now.

[the_joker]

Gotta get this (http://www.sitngo-analyzer.com) if you're going to do this for a living.

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Gotta get this (http://www.sitngo-analyzer.com) if you're going to do this for a living.

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Wow joker thanks!! do you use this WHILE you play or is it to analyze and fix your play after the game is over. Are there actual poker bots (not human) playing online?

[raptor517]

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Gotta get this (http://www.sitngo-analyzer.com) if you're going to do this for a living.

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Wow joker thanks!! do you use this WHILE you play or is it to analyze and fix your play after the game is over. Are there actual poker bots (not human) playing online?

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of course there are, but party would never say yes. holla

[the_joker]

No you use it after you play to analyze the game. Also, just spending time playing around with it is extremely useful.

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No you use it after you play to analyze the game. Also, just spending time playing around with it is extremely useful.

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Ahh so it's not an EXACT science. I pretty much do these calling range calculations in my head in a much more sloppy manner like this duhhhh.... I have K 8 on the button I'm gonna shove all in because the BB is tight and by the time he picks up an A 10 to call me with I will have already taken enough of his $ to ofset the fact that he will be the favorite going in(Is that Folding equity?). So this will be cool to use thanks. Hey I play 2000 chips 8 minute rounds. Are turbos more profitable? or are they more of a crapshoot?

[schwza]

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Are turbos more profitable? or are they more of a crapshoot?


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more of a crapshoot, but you can play more, so they might be more profitable for you.

[the_joker]

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or are they more of a crapshoot?

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Depends on how good of a crapshooter you are!

[Cactus Jack]

Welcome. You've almost created a mini-FAQ in this thread.

Most have answered a lot of your questions, but here are a couple from my POV.

Party is extremely profitable for a good player. It may not be for a mediocre player, and certainly NOT for a bad player. That's why so many good players make so much money. I'm not suggesting you're bad or mediocre, but experience counts more than you realize. I'm barely hanging on when I multi-table. I have a pretty good ROI when I play one at a time. It takes time and experience to play these, esp at Party with no margin for error. The more you can do without having to think about it, the better off you'll be, esp when playing more than one table. Maybe somebody else can explain this in fewer words?

No reason to keep it a secret. The secret is you have to work at it...really, really hard. Most people like the easy way. They depend on luck. They'll never learn "the secret." (And the more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.)

Your acct name is cool and apropos. There is more Zen in poker than most people realize.

Read the FAQ at the top. If you can get through that and absorb everything in it, you won't have to ask if you're a winning player. You'll know it.

Best wishes, one former USAFer to another. (I didn't retire. We had reads on each other early on.)

CJ

Are there any posters on here who have had any live tournament success (televised tables) etc.
I have seen a couple of dan druff hate posts. Everyone seems to hate him. He said he was a "well known" internet player well known from where? The only internet player I ever heard of before I started internet play was Spirit Rock
I wonder how much ROI he'd have on a 109 sng at Party

Thanks for the advise Cactus jack. Yes I have read the FAQ, and I knew I was a winning player when I was cashing out money online consistently. I'm sure I've not seen the worst variance has to offer yet but I have seen variance.

I know I have .5% the sample size to be posting this but what the hay!! It's my first day

after 100 RECORDED 5.5$ sngs I have

ROI 27% 1st 18%
2nd 12%
3rd 15%
4th 14%
5th 10%
6th 13%
7th 5%
8th 7%
9th 5%
This is including a 9 OOTM streak.
I dont pretend these #s mean anything except I feel like my luck was sub par not even including the streak in these 100
I know I am a winning player.
I also know I have room for improvement(alot)
I have cashed out several thousand dollars on multiple occations from low limit play
PS: your introduction was what made me come out of the 2+2 shadows. Thanks for the post

By the way I'm 25 years old and my mind is still spongey.
I was medically retired. I had reads too Cactus jack

[Cactus Jack]

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PS: your introduction was what made me come out of the 2+2 shadows. Thanks for the post

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Outstanding! The one and only contribution to this forum I'll ever make. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

CJ

[BradleyT]

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Are there any posters on here who have had any live tournament success (televised tables) etc.

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ZeeJustin

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I have seen a couple of dan druff hate posts. Everyone seems to hate him. He said he was a "well known" internet player well known from where?

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Neverwinpoker.com (http://www.neverwinpoker.com/phpnuke/html/modules.php?name=Forums)

[ayecappy]

Hi and welcome!
Since im basically in the same situation as you are(as in looking for ways to improve my lowlimit sng play) and your thread has gotten some attention i'll make a mini-hijack and ask if the harrington on holdem volumes are good reads for an aspiring sng player?
Volume1 I reckon is about deep stack tournament play, perhaps not all that applicable to sng play as we know it but it might still have important concepts in it?
Volume2 is supposed to be about late play which contrary would be very applicable albeit being somewhat different right?

What i find hardest to evalute is how stack sizes affect my decisions, ofcourse some situations are very intuitive such as being one of two big stacks against a shortie but some, like being one of two semi shortstacks against one big one(like 1500/1500/5000) etc is alot harder, does HOH cover this thoroughly in a manner that is applicable to stt's?

Anyway nice post, half of it felt like you took your words out of my mouth /images/graemlins/smile.gif