What ever happened to Mid High

[SA125]

mikel. usually repsonds to a lot of posters. Andy too for the most part. Gabe always responds to Andy, who always responds to mikel., who always repsonds to Gabe. Throw in all around good guy Rick Nebiolo, who always responds to Andy, Gabe and mikel.

Clark is in that loop but has gone thru some stages and sees things a little different now. He's tired of educating the masses, especially when others are consistently posting hands twice the limit he plays at. Even though I'm sure they're far from twice the player he is.

Now if a thread is started by BK or Scheinds, no matter the level of the thinking of the content, it's 1000 responses long. "We disagree. Should he bet?" Razor edge marginal 33.

Good question, sure. Much more? Not if posted by Joe Blow.

Jeffage, who is probably the best mid-high combo stud/holdem player on the boards, gets token repsonses. He plays fairly high and post good hands. Lost in translation.

Don't mind me. As usual. I'm playing a lot of stud and h/u tourney's now, in addition to the boring ring games. Doing good. Eugene, where are you?

This used to be a forum where you'd post and then, months later, the light bulb would go off. You'd realize you have to bet because IT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN WIN THE HAND. That concept is extremely hard for most novices to understand. Whatever. Flame away.

My only regret is that I've contributed zilch to making it better.

[bicyclekick]

Seems like almost everyone goes through the stage when they feel mid-high is deteriorating. Meh. Get over it, you're not the first and wont be the last to think it. And things are fine.

[jayheaps]

I think the key is fewer posted hands that begin with pokertracker stats. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DeadMoneyOC]

Well at least you guys have TxRedMan now. Quality baby.

[DcifrThs]

you will never get back to the 20 or so posters discussing hands w/ mason, david, and ray again (aka, early older archives)

there are more and more poeple posting a wider variety of hands and general groups of people who respond to each others' threads with a bias. there's still some good stuff here but not in as high a proportion as youd like

Barron

[J.A.Sucker]

I try to post hands that are interesting to me, and I respond to some of them. Online poker hands generally aren't as interesting, because the games are a little different. You can't tell as much about the players, and you play more by stats and math. I haven't posted an online hand, and I play plenty of online poker.

Live poker always gives me interesting hands. I'll try to post more of them, but I usually forget them.

I think a similar set of ideas applies to responding to posts. The game isn't different, but people think it is. Again, I tend to respond only to hands that interest me, and there are only a few that are. Usually, they are from certain posters. When snakehead posts a hand, I always read it. There's a reason - he's played high for a long time and if something interesting goes down, then it's a useful post to read. If it doesn't seem interesting, you can be damned sure that you are missing something.

Gabe should post more hands, though.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
mikel. usually repsonds to a lot of posters. Andy too for the most part. Gabe always responds to Andy, who always responds to mikel., who always repsonds to Gabe. Throw in all around good guy Rick Nebiolo, who always responds to Andy, Gabe and mikel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both mike l. and I are playing a lot more no limit lately. mike l. is already a top no limit poster but I'm still at the point where I mostly surf no limit since I'm essentially confused. Eventually I'd like to post more, perhaps under a separate posting name since I know I'm often playing against 2+2ers these days.

Sometimes it might seem we can get a bit like a clique mostly responding to each others posts (I mean Andy, Gabe, mike l. etc.) but the reality is that the forum has grown from a small town to a huge city and it's only natural to hang around the "old hood". I know DrifrThs, bicyclekick and countless others are great posters but a lot of you guys play mostly online while we mostly grind it out in the local trenches. With the increase in posting that means if we see a great post in the morning and make a comment or two it's buried by the time we get home. That wasn't true a few years ago.

Also I spoke with mike l. about this and we both agreed that sometimes our eyes glaze over when a hand is posted using one of the converters. It might be old age though (especially in my case) /images/graemlins/grin.gif. It does help when you guys add some descriptive material between the converters output.

Now there are more forums than I have fingers and toes so this complicates things even more. I have one browser (Opera) set up just for 2+2, with a Personal Bar of tabs for ten or so forums I like/need to check out the most. Even with this, it took me months to find the Science, Math and Philosophy forum, which I call the "God" forum on my tab label in honor of Sklansky and "sklanskyanity".


[ QUOTE ]
Clark is in that loop but has gone thru some stages and sees things a little different now. He's tired of educating the masses, especially when others are consistently posting hands twice the limit he plays at. Even though I'm sure they're far from twice the player he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stay away from Clark's posts these days because his new avatar (not the previous one with that old man!) makes me horny.


[ QUOTE ]
Now if a thread is started by BK or Scheinds, no matter the level of the thinking of the content, it's 1000 responses long. "We disagree. Should he bet?" Razor edge marginal 33.

[/ QUOTE ]

Imagine coming home to this after playing ten hours at a zoo like Hollywood Park!


[ QUOTE ]
Jeffage, who is probably the best mid-high combo stud/holdem player on the boards, gets token repsonses. He plays fairly high and post good hands. Lost in translation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to put him on my ever growing list of posters I need to read more. The list is linked by an actual icon on my desktop.

~ Rick

PS Whatever happened to the idea of starting an "over 50 OOT" aka the "geezer forum" or is the Science, Math, and Philosophy forum it by default since David Sklansky, Andy Fox, Zeno, and John Cole post there so often?

PPS I also miss the old threads Jim Brier started. They were always on topic and actually stayed up on top the message index for more than 30 minutes /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mike l.]

"Gabe should post more hands, though."

lmd and i were talking last night about some hands gabe played lmfao.

[Clarkmeister]

I should post more, just to spread avatar-induced joy.

[TStoneMBD]

ive said numerous times that we need a highstakes forum for 30/60 and higher and a forum for 10/20 to 20/40. i dont like cluttering up midhigh with my 15/30 threads because its not fair to you guys, so i post them in ss where i dont get any good feedback.

theres alot of good hands posted these days with the increase in high limit games. high limit threads of the past got so much more attention and well thought out responses because threads of those limits were so rare, not because the hands were better or more interesting.

twoplustwo has covered so many topics and the members of this forum almost know their results by heart. discussing certain concepts only leads to the same responses and conclusions you heard months ago. the arguements for each situation have been so drawn out and well documented that its a waste of time to repeat known literature. as a result, we resort to one-liners to voice our opinion when elaborating on our reasoning would only be stating the obvious.

most hands and discussions worth talking about are of situations so close or so rare that figuring out the correct solution adds a thousandth of a decimal onto your winrate. to many people these discussions seem pointless but twoplustwo in my opinion has evolved so well that these rare and close situations are the only opportunities to say something innovative. that is not to say that we have become such good poker players that there is no room left for improvement. there certainly is and there is by a wide margin.

once you read a thread about a particular situation its natural to come to your own conclusions based on the reasoning in that thread. many of our conclusions are wrong. in many threads there is disagreement upon which line is correct and which isnt. as we continue to review each situation over and over our collective conclusions will slowly evolve into solidarity.

because there is little room left to be innovative, most threads are about psychology or just practicing routine situations. innovative situations from the past have become routine. midhighstakes could be improved upon, but the level of expertise in the game has risen moreso than it ever has.

[DeeJ]

Puff, the magic dragon, lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honalee.
Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff
And brought him strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff, oh
Puff, the magic dragon, lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honalee.
Puff, the magic dragon, lived by the sea
And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honalee.

Together they would travel on boat with billowed sail
Jackie kept a lookout perched on Puff's gigantic tail
Noble kings and princes would bow whene'er they came
Pirate ships would lower their flags when Puff roared out his name, oh

CHORUS

A dragon lives forever, but not so little boys
Painted wings and giants's rings make way for other toys.
One grey night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more
And Puff that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar.

His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain
Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane.
Without his lifelong friend, Puff could not be brave
So, Puff that mighty dragon sadly slipped into his cave, oh

CHORUS

[dopp16]

[ QUOTE ]
ive said numerous times that we need a highstakes forum for 30/60 and higher and a forum for 10/20 to 20/40. .

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. I am a lower mid-stakes player also and sometimes don't feel like my 15/30 hand is as interesting to some of the other posters simply because you can't give your opponents that much credit without a read. But then again when I post on the SS forum, the feedback that I get isn't nearly as well thought out. I tend to think like a lot of the posters in this forum so I tend to post more in this forum. My apologies to the people I bore with my crappy hand posts. Tata

I think you do small stakes something of a disservice - there are plenty of good posters there. There are plenty of bad ones there too, but twoplustwo is like that - its a forum for educating new players as much as it is for advanced players to get together in discussion. One thing I've found that helps when posting in smalll stakes is to omit the level - it seems to generate more replies. I think some of the posters get intimidated when they see 15/30 in the header. And there are a lot of mid-level games being posted there now, even 20/40 and 30/60. I still lurk in the high-stakes forum though - I'm learning so much about how to creatively flame people with a pithy one-liner /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]

My only regret is that I've contributed zilch to making it better.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can do something about that.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
ive said numerous times that we need a highstakes forum for 30/60 and higher and a forum for 10/20 to 20/40.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the break should be 10/20 to 40/80 versus 50/100 and higher. The 40/80's play pretty close to 20/40, at least in LA.

Another possible break is B&M mid to high limit versus online mid to high limit. The online posts seem to have an entirely different flavor than the B&M posts.

Good post though. Hope you get some feedback.

~ Rick

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you do small stakes something of a disservice - there are plenty of good posters there. There are plenty of bad ones there too, but twoplustwo is like that - its a forum for educating new players as much as it is for advanced players to get together in discussion. One thing I've found that helps when posting in smalll stakes is to omit the level - it seems to generate more replies. I think some of the posters get intimidated when they see 15/30 in the header. And there are a lot of mid-level games being posted there now, even 20/40 and 30/60. I still lurk in the high-stakes forum though - I'm learning so much about how to creatively flame people with a pithy one-liner /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

As a small stakes guy, I agree with this.

I personally have posted several 15/30, 20/40, and even one 30/60 live hand to the Small Stakes board, and have found the feedback very useful for those games.

The real question seems to be "where does 15/30 online belong"? It often goes here and often goes to SS... I wonder if people shouldn't just start cross-posting and comparing. Who knows?

Small Stakes is an odd board, because you have posters who range from players just moving up to 2/4, and then you have players like Entity, Sfer, Shant, Jason, BigEndian, Crunchy, Harv and so on that have been playing for a long time, many of whom play at the 10/20 online or 20/40 live level and higher. Mid-high is nice in that there is less noise, but I still stand by Small Stakes for stuff up to about 20/40.

[PokerCad]

My posts suck, but they will get better in time,(maybe when I figure this advanced poker thought process out I might even have an intelligent post /images/graemlins/confused.gif) But by all means, you regulars keep posting so's I can keep reading 'cause I need all the help I can get because I suck /images/graemlins/frown.gif, Seriously the upper level thought process posted here DOES really help my game so everybody keep it up! and don't get too frustrated with us newbies /images/graemlins/smile.gif
JEFF

PS who won the 2+2 showdown on friday?