That not so fresh feeling [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : That not so fresh feeling

JDErickson

10-02-2005, 08:46 PM

Opponent 9/9 after 22 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

I thought about just calling the 3 bet PF and I also thought about checking the flop. I didn't like either one.

Comments??? Help me get that loving feeling back.

brettbrettr

10-02-2005, 08:48 PM

22 hands is nothing. I often only call the 3-bet HU. BUt considering you capped you have to bet the flop b/c you're going to bet flops you miss. If he doesn't have an ace you're just not going to get action. Its fine. Don't fret.

Bill Lumberg

10-02-2005, 08:50 PM

Why not check the flop?

paperboyNC

10-02-2005, 08:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why not check the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking the flop is bad for two reasons - it is sometimes the dead give away that you hit it big. Also, it lessens your ability to buy pots later on when you miss. (If you'd always check when you hit)

Bill Lumberg

10-02-2005, 09:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BUt considering you capped you have to bet the flop b/c you're going to bet flops you miss. If he doesn't have an ace you're just not going to get action. Its fine. Don't fret.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't villain bet flops he missed also? If he has an ace, we'll get action. If he doesn't, we may still get action from KK-JJ. I understand that we may still get action if we bet, but I don't think we will as often, plus if villain takes a free card, then he may catch something that gives him a second-best hand.

Bill Lumberg

10-02-2005, 09:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not check the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking the flop is bad for two reasons - it is sometimes the dead give away that you hit it big. Also, it lessens your ability to buy pots later on when you miss. (If you'd always check when you hit)

[/ QUOTE ]

So, we're assuming that villain thinks we'll have AA if we check? He may think we have KK-JJ and we're afraid of an A or AA from him. Granted, that's weak, but we've only been playing with villain for 20 hands, what does he know. This may gain us a bet or more.

Why should I be concerned about how this hand will affect my image? Slowplaying like this occurs so infrequently and I'm going to be betting so many other flops that I hit.

Bill Lumberg

10-02-2005, 09:39 PM

ToGreyStreet

10-02-2005, 10:48 PM

::blind post::

your line is fine, I would cap 100% of the time in that situation. and becasue you did cap, you can't check the flop. that would put up red flags for me if I was your opponent, a total donk could smell that slowplay a mile away

Carmine

10-02-2005, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why not check the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking the flop is bad for two reasons - it is sometimes the dead give away that you hit it big. Also, it lessens your ability to buy pots later on when you miss. (If you'd always check when you hit)

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't we turn this around and say that now we'll get more action when we bet our legitimate hands cause now they think we haven't hit?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill you are correct. I was going to post the same thought. I also would have checked this flop giving the impression I was afraid of the Ace. It probably didn't matter in this case because I think villian's flop muck means he had a hand like 99. Once the Ace drops there is no 3-betting or capping hand that he can beat.

10-02-2005, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
::blind post::

your line is fine, I would cap 100% of the time in that situation. and becasue you did cap, you can't check the flop. that would put up red flags for me if I was your opponent, a total donk could smell that slowplay a mile away

[/ QUOTE ]

A check would put up red flags? This is a perfect hand to slowplay. It looks like you are scared of either aces or a ten. I think villain will bet this on principle with any hand and if called will make a continuation bet if you check the turn. SLOWPLAY THIS HAND. If you think this will decrease your ability to bluff you may be right but you can now buy free cards even when OOP.

LLL

me454555

10-03-2005, 12:03 AM

Check the flop. This flop is so scary to your opponent b/c he almost certainly has KK, QQ, or JJ. There is no harm in giving a free card and if you bet, his only move is to fold. Even if he doesn't know you have AA, he's gotta put you on AK, AQ or such.

The Goober

10-03-2005, 01:05 AM

I think its it's almost always correct to smooth call the 3-bet when you're heads-up with AA or KK. Its just when you raise first in MP like this your hand range is still pretty large, but when you cap it goes way down. You're such a heavy favourite and it's usually easy to make up that lost bet with a flop or turn CR.

Give the way you played it, I actually think that a flop check might be best (i was initially in the bet camp, but after thinking a bit I changed my mind). Sure, it'll send up red flags, but what's the alternative? After you cap PF and bet out on this flop, villain is going to have a really hard time calling w/o a T or A, and its not likely that he has either (since there's only once A left, and the only T he's likely 3-betting with is TT). I might even check again on the turn if he checks behind on the flop.

I think after you cap PF and flop this poorly-hidden monster, its just tough to make a whole lot of money. If he's got a big hand or absolutely nothing, you'll likely get the same amount from him by either betting or checking; if his hand is borderline you likely make a little more by slowplaying, and on the off-chance that he makes a big hand on the turn/river (set or straight), you will likely make a lot more by slowplaying (if he would have folded).

I'm too long winded, how about: call the 3-bet PR, since you didn't, probably check flop, but its close.