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View Full Version : Huge variance over 1000SNGs (33s)


Van Strummer
10-02-2005, 06:32 PM
After all the posts by players running bad/breaking even for 30-40 tournaments and positing I just wanted to post a good illustration of some real variance (at least thats what I hope it is.)

I have been playing STTs for about 18 months. And I have played about 5500 tournaments in this span, starting out in the 11s and moving up to the 55s. I have kept records for the 4500 I have played in the 22s, 33s and 55s.

My ROI has been in the 15-20% range in the 22s and 33s. My results have always been very stable and I don`t even think I have had a 20 buyin downswing before, nor a really big upswing. All my results look pretty much like this (which are the last 1000 tourneys I played before this really swingy period started):
ROI: 19,1%
ITM: 38,3%
Bubble +/-: -1,1%

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4656/good8rc.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=good8rc.jpg)

In July I decided to test out the 55s and started out by making about 60 buyins in 150 tourneys. After this I broke even for the next 450:
ROI: 7%
ITM: 35,2%
Bubble +/-: -0,1%

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1265/553lx.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=553lx.jpg)

After this I decided to try working on my 8-tabeling skills in the 33s (I had been 6 tabeling up to this point). Ran up 15 buyins in my first session and felt great. Then went into a 60 buyin downswing (cutting back down to 6 tabeling midways) and when I was totally fed up on SNGs and about to quit everything I hit a major heater winning 75 buyins in 120 tournaments. I ran average for the next 250 before finishing the set of 1000 with another 30+ buyin downswing (still counting) today.
ROI: 2,3%
ITM: 34,4%
Bubble +/-: -6,1%

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/5264/bad9lc.th.jpg (http://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bad9lc.jpg)

What strikes me the most is the lack of 1sts and the bubble +/- of: -6,1% (this was actually over 8% at the 500 mark). This is especially strange because while analyzing my game most of the mistakes I found were me being too aggressive 5 and 6 handed. I have actually decreased my 5th and 6th place finishes. If anyone else have experienced this or an extreme bubble +/- I would really like to hear from you.

I still believe (especially after my last downswing) that something has to be wrong with my game, but I am not able to find it, nor has my friends who have looked through some of my hand histories. I have very little confidence in my game right now and will probably take a long break before starting over fresh with another 1000.

Sabrazack
10-02-2005, 06:56 PM
I have a -9% bubble +/- over my last 400 tournaments. It sucks.. I think i am being to agressive when i have a large stack and others have similarly sized stacks. I also think im pushing too much junk into very big/small stacks. I am now trying to correct these mistakes and have started a new database. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

lem45216
10-02-2005, 07:58 PM
I know how both of you feel. I feel the same.
Its like variance victims anonymous:
Hi, my name's jaffa, and i'm a victim of variance.

My profit loss graph looks a bit like this.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lozthefunkybassist/profitgraph.jpg

AA suited
10-02-2005, 07:58 PM
what is bubble +/- %?

lem45216
10-02-2005, 08:02 PM
Yeah i was wondering the same thing.

pergesu
10-02-2005, 08:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
what is bubble +/- %?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you make it to the bubble, you expect to go ITM 75% of the time. Makes sense cause 3/4 people get in. If you actually only make it 70% of the time, then your ITM from bubble +- would be -5%

ace_in_the_hole
10-02-2005, 08:08 PM
I sometimes dream that my profit graph could look like your top one, but for 10,000 SnG's and at the 109's. Wouldn't that be swell?

lem45216
10-02-2005, 08:18 PM
The top graph is absolute textbook in my opinion. Very nice.

raptor517
10-02-2005, 08:45 PM
jaffa yer my new favorite poster. holla

Roman
10-02-2005, 08:56 PM
totally OT, but what program do u use to graph these results?

ace_in_the_hole
10-02-2005, 09:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
totally OT, but what program do u use to graph these results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Xcel
Looks like Aleo Spreadsheet.

AA suited
10-02-2005, 10:34 PM
aleo's spreadsheet give's you bubble +/-?!

Which version?

golfcchs
10-02-2005, 11:19 PM
What is a good itm % from the bubble considering a big part of the 2+2 strategy is playing the bubble correctly?

Maulik
10-02-2005, 11:39 PM
someone play short-handed stud, then compare their variance to mine, and we'll go from there.

skipperbob
10-03-2005, 09:16 AM
WAYCOOL

stupidsucker
10-03-2005, 11:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What is a good itm % from the bubble considering a big part of the 2+2 strategy is playing the bubble correctly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think mine has ever been 75%+, but up until recently my 1st places were very heavy.

-Skeme-
10-03-2005, 11:27 AM
What software did you use to make those graphs? Are there ANY programs that graph SNG progress for Stars?

raptor517
10-03-2005, 12:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What software did you use to make those graphs? Are there ANY programs that graph SNG progress for Stars?

[/ QUOTE ]

record it manually then aleo creates all the pretty pictures. holla

-Skeme-
10-03-2005, 12:25 PM
Alrighty, can you tell me where to find Aleo? I'd really appreciate any help you can give me. Holla back. Thanks.

Slim Pickens
10-03-2005, 12:26 PM
linked in the FAQ and my profile

-Skeme-
10-03-2005, 12:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
linked in the FAQ and my profile

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Doh, don't have Excel.

Slim Pickens
10-03-2005, 12:53 PM
Get Hood's SNG Tracker, also linked in the FAQ.

-Skeme-
10-03-2005, 12:58 PM
SNG Tracker doesn't work with Stars. I guess I'll have to find Excel. Edit: I found a free MS Excel viewer that opened the Tracker. Does this only work with Party, too?

ClaytonN
10-03-2005, 01:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Get Hood's SNG Tracker, also linked in the FAQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

What advantage does this have over the newest Aleo Xcel? I dont see any differences...

raptor517
10-03-2005, 01:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get Hood's SNG Tracker, also linked in the FAQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

What advantage does this have over the newest Aleo Xcel? I dont see any differences...

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, it tracks automatically.. which is precisely why i dont use it. i hate auto tracked results, as i dont think they are ever 100% even though they should be. holla

-Skeme-
10-03-2005, 01:43 PM
Does Aleo work for Stars?

Slim Pickens
10-03-2005, 02:10 PM
It sure does. You can put whatever you want into it, either manually or loaded from Poker Tracker. Just change the number of players to 9 instead of 10 and it should get all your stats right too.

-Skeme-
10-03-2005, 02:19 PM
Thanks.