Another live hand...top two

[Garland]

This is another hand from the place I went to earlier described here: Palace Card Club in Hayward, CA (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3555150&page=0&view=e xpanded&sb=5&o=14&fpart=). The game is $1-$2-$2, $5 to bring it in and no max buy-in.

The game has gotten a bit passive (less kills and less preflop raises) although still very much loose.

The game has been very good. I've been playing very tight lately, and one of the older European accented gamblers actually made a comment that he forgot that I was still playing as I had been folding for the last two hours. Thanks guy.

I'm in MP and open-limp (~$2200) with A/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif. Note: A raise is still ineffective as I am sure to get callers no matter how much I raise.

Passive Next Player (PNP) limps (~$600) as well. He's fairly passive and straight forward. There are 4 other players who call including the blinds.

Pot: $30

Flop: A/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Checks to me, I bet the pot ($30), PNP raises to $100... Alert! He is not raising on a draw. Actually no one is raising a draw anymore. So I get the sense he has a real hand, probably two pair or better. It folds around to me. I look over to his stack, think for about 6 seconds and announce all-in...

Meh?

Garland

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I get the sense he has a real hand, probably two pair or better

[/ QUOTE ]

AA - 1 combo
TT - 1 combo
99 - 3 combos
AT - 4 combos
A9 - 6 combos
9T - 6 combos

Looks like you're ahead of his range here.... push is good as long as he calls with all of these hands.

[lapoker17]

If you know he doesn't limp TT then I like.

[Ulysses]

Open-limping in that game makes me want to puke.

[Garland]

I forgot to add that I had been running very, very good in addition to playing tight/solid/aggressive, up about $1000 at the time from several hands not too far in the past in relationship to this hand. In other words, I have a luckbox image going for me too.

Garland

[Garland]

PNP hemmed and hawed for about a minute. At about the 4 or 5 second mark, I knew I wanted a call. He ended up folding. He claimed A9, and I believe him.

Many players can't let go of two pair, so I thought the all-in would work most of the time.

[ QUOTE ]

Looks like you're ahead of his range here.... push is good as long as he calls with all of these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the point of this hand, I believe. This guy played pretty passively, so did I put too much pressure right away? After he mucked, I thought a better way to go was perhaps "piece-mealing" the all-in, first by re-raising to perhaps $250 or $300 and then pushing on the turn. I think they would be more seduced into calling the 3-bet, and then realize they are pot-committed too late.

Validity to this idea?

El Diablo mentioned open-limping being a horrible play. Would playing a bloated pot with a questionable/speculative hand out of position make him feel better?

And given that half the moves I make cause El Diablo to regurgitate, perhaps he should stop reading my posts for his own health... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Garland

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
He claimed A9, and I believe him.


[/ QUOTE ]youve got to be kidding me.
that is sick. no way.
BTW/ of course you want a call are high?
if this guy is really awful, make it 300 toal and then push on the turn.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

Making him put in 5 times what he's already invested is a sure -fire way to let him off the hook. either call and lead the turn or raise to 300 if you don't think he'll assume you know that pot-commits him (against an aware player the only way to get his stack in is through stop-and-going and getting him to commit on the turn). As it is, overbetting all in as a 3rd raise ensures you only get called by a set.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
El Diablo mentioned open-limping being a horrible play. Would playing a bloated pot with a questionable/speculative hand out of position make him feel better?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played a ton in that game. Build a pot, then stack them. You've already said, you raise preflop, they still call you with stuff like A9. Then, you easily stack him post-flop.

As for this hand, yes, I like milking him to death.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
You've already said, you raise preflop, they still call you with stuff like A9. Then, you easily stack him post-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

And they'll call me with stuff like AJ, AQ and AK too. Plus they'll have position on me. What do I do when Axx flops and there's action? What if I want a cheap draw if KQx, KJx or QJx flops? All gone with the bloated pot, plus I'll lose more to the dominated A.

Note that if I played it correctly, I would have stacked A9 with or without the preflop raise.

Garland

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
What do I do when Axx flops?

[/ QUOTE ]

Play poker.

A few posts ago you're talking about your awesome live reads. Now you're talking about losing a lot to dominating Aces. Which one is it?

[PGarlic]

I would just muck the ATo in MP preflop. It will be a difficult hand to play after the flop if you raise and face resistance, especially if you flop a T or A.

If you just limp you'll be playing a hand that doesn't play well in big multiway pots. The best ATo can usually do is flop top pair and then take down the pot on the flop. The only way you can win a big pot with this hand is if you get lucky and flop big, while someone else flops second best.

edit: On the flop I think you played it fine.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
A few posts ago you're talking about your awesome live reads. Now you're talking about losing a lot to dominating Aces. Which one is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise preflop, get 4 callers like I get a lot of the times, bet the flop on an Axx and get called by a dominated A, I've already lost "a lot".

How am I supposed to get a read on my opponent on an Axx flop when I bet and get called by A[?] when the caller is too scared to raise because he fears that I have AA or AK, but too scared to fold the winner as well? If you played this game with the same opponents as I do, they are not letting go of a good A, no matter how big the pot gets.

Garland

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
If you played this game with the same opponents as I do, they are not letting go of a good A, no matter how big the pot gets.

[/ QUOTE ]
Amazing that they won't fold a good ace no matter how big the pot gets and yet they will fold aces up heads up on the flop.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
How am I supposed to get a read on my opponent on an Axx flop when I bet and get called by A[?] when the caller is too scared to raise because he fears that I have AA or AK, but too scared to fold the winner as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot how much more of a feel I get of players when I'm playing live. Body language, mannerisms, feel, timing have so much more to do with the play than online. I KNEW I was behind, and I'm sure many would say easy call for the pot odds and implied odds even if I knew I was behind to spike an A and stack anyone with a J. To me it was a pure gamble and put my reads and tells to use.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which one is it?

[ QUOTE ]
If you played this game with the same opponents as I do, they are not letting go of a good A, no matter how big the pot gets.

[/ QUOTE ]

While not for a while, I've played the Palace game many, many times against all the same sorts of clowns you are talking about. If you are worried about building pots against these guys, I don't know what to say. And based on what you say, I guess you must have worse tells than anyone else if they are never folding a good ace, but folding aces up to your top two.

[RikaKazak]

I strongly believe MILK MILK MILK HIM!! 3 bet and lead on turn.