Cap This River?

[GTSamIAm]

This guy just sat down. It folds to him and he just calls from the SB. I plan to do what I do with anyone who does that (barring reads): raise preflop, bet flop, folding to aggression.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

grunch

I check preflop and call flop. Then I play it the same ie I dont cap the river.

[GTSamIAm]

Why do you just call on the flop? Do you mean you would have called in my position, or you would have called after you checked preflop and he bet the flop?

Is the preflop horrible against an unknown? What are my effective odds? Are they 5:2 or 2:2?

[Fantam]

I have just completed a couple of the MLL matches, and I am no expert in HU play, so I will just say what I think.

Your plan of auto raising SB preflop when he checks and following up with an auto bet or raise on the flop sounds reasonable enough. However, I would prefer to also consider the strength of my hand before automatically making any play.

Given the way that you played your hand, I would have liked a turn raise when you made top pair. If you were behind to 2 pair, a set or a made straight, you would probably have been reraised by SB.

The way SB played his hand, it suggests that he made a set on the flop, which improved to a boat on the river.

[Fantam]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the preflop horrible against an unknown? What are my effective odds? Are they 5:2 or 2:2?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your effective odds will depend upon how many bets SB makes.

Preflop, if SB just calls your raise, you will be getting 3:1 to see the flop.

[GTSamIAm]

That's exactly what I thought his hand was, but I figured it was possible he had two pair or a straight.

What are the merits of calling the turn and river versus raising the turn folding to a 3-bet? What hands does the villain bet the turn with?

[GTSamIAm]

I mean odds for the play, assuming SB never bets and I scoop the pot without incident. I'm making 2 small bets from him, but the pot will be 5 small bets when I win. I'm spending 2 small bets. So I don't understand if my odds are 2:2 or 5:2.

[Fantam]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean odds for the play, assuming SB never bets and I scoop the pot without incident. I'm making 2 small bets from him, but the pot will be 5 small bets when I win. I'm spending 2 small bets. So I don't understand if my odds are 2:2 or 5:2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Your odds would be 3:2 if your play was successful.

You would win 3 sb (2 from SB + your original blind), and your play would risk 2 sb.

[Fantam]

[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what I thought his hand was, but I figured it was possible he had two pair or a straight.

What are the merits of calling the turn and river versus raising the turn folding to a 3-bet? What hands does the villain bet the turn with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I can see what you are thinking. You seem to be assuming that SB would only 3-bet the flop with either 2 pair or a set. I thought that SB might also 3-bet the flop with top pair or an overpair smaller than 88.

Your range (of SB's possible hands) is probably more likely than mine, so that would suggest calling the turn bet to see if you improve by the river with your set or straight possibilities.

However, I think that with either range, calling SB's river bet seems to be more prudent than raising. Thats because when SB bets the river, he does not seem to be afraid of the possibility that you made trip 8's.

[irishpint]

we cant fold to a turn 3bet since we have the OESD

dont raise pf, it's not worth investing $ in a hand like this and getting married to the pot.
flop is fine, i MAY even cap it, if i think it'll get me that coveted free card. since i cannot fold to a 3bet i am not raising the turn. im raising the river but not capping.

[Sykes]

I like how you played this hand on all streets.

A lot of people will disagree with the pfr but it lets you take control of the hand plus it gives you more $$ when sb folds for 1 bet on the flop most of the time.

Oh yeah, don't cap river.

[ChuckyB]

If I'm the villain, I'd be 3-betting the flop with A5, 54, 52, 42, maybe 43, any overpair (though they should have been raised PF heads up.) All those hands (expect big overpairs) are very vulnerable on this board. I believe you're safe on this river.

I'd expect to see top-two pair with a big kicker. You didn't react to the 8...so he probably believes it didn't help you and he's punishing you for a draw.

Save for the raise pre-flop and on the flop, I like the way you played it.

I don't mind the reasoning behind the PFR but there aren't too many hands worse than 83s HU.
But having raised pre flop, your plan goes south when bet in to on the flop. SB has made something or suspects strongly that you have not.
The raise is fine in my opinion - for the free card possibilities, to assert authority and to a lesser extent - information. Plan goes even further south when you're 3bet. You have your info. SB has definitely made something stronger than a pair. 2 pair, str8, trips.
Turn - fine.
River - fine. I think you're winning this showdown like never. The no hesitation 3 bet was a death siren, I expect boat or str8 95%./images/graemlins/frown.gif

Edit: The only time you save bets here, is if SB shows you his cards on the flop.