Avoiding bad beats [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

10-01-2005, 06:51 AM

I usually do pretty well in low buyin sng's. But when lose, it is usually because of the same "mistake", I lose it all in one hand!
Here is a typical example:

CO was a tight, pasive played who would call a allin with a medium holding.
The table was very agressive, and there was a lot of allins.
I had been playing VERY tight, due to very bad hands, and I neated a double up.

No-Limit Hold'em SnG, 45 players 18 left, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t4025)
MP1 (t5060)
MP2 (t1040)
MP3 (t3849)
CO (t4736) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Button (t7595)
Hero (t1745)
BB (t4560)
UTG (t5480)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
5 folds, CO calls t200, 1 fold, Hero raises to t600, 1 fold, CO calls t400.

Flop: (t1400) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t400, CO calls t400.

Turn: (t2200) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t745 (All-In), CO calls t745.

River: (t3690) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t3690

How would a better player have played that hand?

Exitonly

10-01-2005, 07:02 AM

i would have pushed the flop.. but i doubt that would make much of difference.

Don't worry about it.. suckouts happen all the time.

mods don't like it (well and neither does anyone else) when you post about it though.

Rickyroodido

10-01-2005, 08:32 AM

Well you are kind of on the right track. A really good player can avoid a badbeat like this. The key skill is to use mindforce to manipulate the cards. Focus, concentrate and scream "no seven". This will have a direct fysical inpact on the probability of a seven hitting.
You could say its a matter of will.

BlackRain

10-01-2005, 09:06 AM

LOL at last post. You can't avoid bad beats though. They happen all the time. I don't like your flop bet. Its much too weak. But it looks like this guy is calling no matter what anyways. He has 3 outs and maybe a few hidden outs to a split pot (i didn't look closely enough.) Its just the way it goes sometimes.

betgo

10-01-2005, 09:16 AM

The best way to avoid bad beats is to always get your money in with the worse hand.

10-01-2005, 10:04 AM

Not saying that villian wouldn't have called anyways, but that flop bet is weak compared to the pot. 400 more into a 1400 pot when you raised to 600 the hand before looks weak, if I had a7, I'd probably call on the turn also thinking that you maybe had a mid to high pocket pair, and were testing the waters.

Lowest bet I'd make there is half the pot, and since that would only leave behind about 450, I'd go ahead and push them all in. He might still call regardless, but your line showed weakness.

Good rule of thumb is to never bet less than what you bet before, unless you got a monster and want a thinking player to play back at you. TPTK isn't a monster, so I say push and see what happens.

nsj

10-01-2005, 10:52 AM

Push the flop and avoid (posting) bad beats.

10-01-2005, 11:29 AM

I'm not sure that I like a bigger bet on the flop, if I made, say an allin, he would proberlly only call with a better hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Push the flop and avoid (posting) bad beats.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not a pussy player whining over bad beats. This is not a bad beat post. I'm trying to learn how to cope with a very common hold'em situation.

10-01-2005, 11:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that I like a bigger bet on the flop, if I made, say an allin, he would proberlly only call with a better hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Push the flop and avoid (posting) bad beats.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not a pussy player whining over bad beats. This is not a bad beat post. I'm trying to learn how to cope with a very common hold'em situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, you got a strong hand here, and you are short stacked. You hit one of the 2 cards you wanted, and need to bet way more than you did to stop flush draws from calling you here. A small bet into that pot is only going to let drawing hands, and sometimes pocket pairs to call to try to catch a card to take the rest of your chips.

If you are afraid of someone having a better hand when you hit one of the two cards you want with ako, why even play ako? Gotta be more aggressive.

On top of that, if they would have came over the top with a better hand, are you saying you would have folded there? If you are willing to call a reraise for all your chips, you should be willing to bet more in the first place.

fnurt

10-01-2005, 11:54 AM

10-01-2005, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but you are not making any sense. You're not satisfied to have A7 call your bet, and you're not satisfied to bet enough to make A7 fold, so what advice are you looking for?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was watching wsop, and I noticed that Dan Harrington had reached the final table a couple of times.
The descriped situation is happening a lot of times for me.
Ever if a player had AA all the time, and another player had KK he would still lose ~20 % of the time. On a 5 day tournament this situation, where you are a 80 % favourite, must have happened many times, but is 80 % favourite enough to commit all your chips. Would Dan Harrington play more aggressive on the flop?

Pat Southern

10-01-2005, 01:32 PM

Push preflop

10-01-2005, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but you are not making any sense. You're not satisfied to have A7 call your bet, and you're not satisfied to bet enough to make A7 fold, so what advice are you looking for?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was watching wsop, and I noticed that Dan Harrington had reached the final table a couple of times.
The descriped situation is happening a lot of times for me.
Ever if a player had AA all the time, and another player had KK he would still lose ~20 % of the time. On a 5 day tournament this situation, where you are a 80 % favourite, must have happened many times, but is 80 % favourite enough to commit all your chips. Would Dan Harrington play more aggressive on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are talking crazy now. Yes, if I knew I was an 80% favorite to win a hand, I'd push and know 4/5 times I am doubling up if called. Dan Harrington would not play weak, and I know after reading his book, he would never avocate making a weak bet on a dangerous board, giving many other hands great odds to call.

I suggest rereading IMO, you seem to be missing something.

10-01-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Pat Southern:
Push preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you explain why?

Pat Southern

10-01-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Pat Southern:
Push preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you explain why?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 8.5 BBs, you're committed to the hand no matter what, its better just to push preflop.

nsj

10-01-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that I like a bigger bet on the flop, if I made, say an allin, he would proberlly only call with a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

So push the flop or string him along and get it in on the turn. Either way is fine. I think he would have called with A7 regardless of your betting pattern. Because he sucks. He didn't improve on the turn, and he called all-in when about 43 realistic holdings for you all bested his hand.

as fnurt said, what kind of solution are you looking for?
you wanted to double up, you got an opponent's stack in on the turn with him drawing to two outs. He hit one of them.

You can't play the hand in a way that prevents the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif from coming off on the river. Do you see why? /images/graemlins/cool.gif