52 Sooted.

[Bob T.]

Online 2-4 game.

One limper, MP raise, two cold callers, I call in the Big blind with 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif , EP calls. Five to the flop for a pot of 10 sbs.

Flop. 7 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif .

Check, check, Preflop raiser bets, both coldcallers fold. I am getting 11-1 on this call, and if my opponent has an overpair, I have 5 outs, so I call. EP folds. 12 sbs, headsup.

Turn, 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . Check, bet, Same logic, if he has an overpair, I now have 13 outs, and the pot is offering me 7 to 1. I call.

River 4 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . I don't imagine that he can put me on this hand, I check, he bets, I raise, and he calls. He has KK, and my hand was good.

I usually don't like to play with a twotone board, that I have no piece of, but I thought that combined with his preflop raise, and everyone else folding my outs may well have been good.

Comments, criticism?

[pufferfish]

Beautiful. I may be playing too tight in “my” BB.

pf

[rigoletto]

Well played!

[Don Quixote]

Well done, I think. Wish I played well enough to play 52s from either blind. Because of my mediocer playing ability, I usually save the extra money it costs me to call from the blinds. I think of it as money saved, money earned.

This is not in any manner a subtle flame, Bob. I have read your posts for a long time and am an admirer of you and your play. I am just a little envious....:-)

Don Quixote

[SoBeDude]

Bob nicely done.

I think you've just hit one something I'd love to talk about.

It is something that Brunson mentions in SS. That playing non-broadway cards can be a big sourse of profits at the poker table. (So I've been told. I haven't read it)

There are two benefits here (if they're played well). One is rarely will people put you on your hand. meaning they'll pay you off when you hit. Two, if the others are playing the top cards, then the boards with small/middle cards can belong to you.

I'd love to see a dialog of how and when these low/mid cards are best played.

-Scott

-Scott

[rigoletto]

just played this hand:

only button and sb calls, I'm in bb with 52s

Fop T 2 8 rainbow, 8 is my suit.

I bet both call

turn: 5

I bet, only button call

River: J

I bet button calls

he has QTs of my suit.

[MRBAA]

As you know, I'm sure, your call of a raise with 5-2 off in bb is -EV. Playing that hand will cost you money long-term, no matter how well you play it. From there you played it fine, and had the presence of mind to get the extra bb on the river based on your accurate read of opponent's big pair. No way can KK put you on 2-5.

[rigoletto]

If you're answering my post, I'll point out that the pot wasn't raised preflop.

[AceHigh]

I think you played it fine.

The key part of this hand is your position with respect to the raiser. If more players call the flop bet, or you are next to act after the raiser, I think you have to fold on the flop. It would be hard to count the 2 /forums/images/icons/club.gif and 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif as outs or even any 5 as an out. That would leave you with the 2 deuces for outs.

[MRBAA]

Sorry Rig, not answering your post but Bob T.'s -- just clicked to answer from your post. From what I've read, I'm guessing your would NOT call a raise with 5-2.

[rigoletto]

It is borderline, but getting 9:1 I would call if the lineup is weak enough. I would have to hit the flop hard to not fold, but as the hand played out I think Bob played it fine.

[Bob T.]

In my mind, there were several key points to playing hands like this.

1 - Although, some people advocate playing any two suited in the blinds, if you are halfway in, I play a little tighter, I want either a big card, A or K, or I want my two suited to be within shouting distance of each other. In this case, a two gapper is about my limit for these small hands.

2 - With the early position limper, and the two cold callers, I am getting 11-1 on my preflop call. This doesn't seem that important, at the time, but where I think it does make a huge difference is after you get a little piece of the flop, and you have to decide whether or not to continue. In this case, when I had to make that decision, if my read on my opponents hand was correct, I had an overlay to continue, so that makes up for some of the times that it isn't correct. As it was, I was getting 13-1 on the flop, which makes a lot of draws correct. Even though the pot has been raised, and it will cost me a small bet to call, I like the situation of calling in the big blind more, than the equivalent situation of completing in the small blind, because I will get better pot odds, after the flop, when I had to call out of the big blind, and I have more room to get an overlay after the flop.

3 - When the two coldcallers folded, it meant that any outs that I had, were much more likely to be good, and there were going to be fewer redraws against what could only be described as a vulnerable hand.

4 - Always notice those players that coldcall a raise preflop, and then fold on the flop. There were two this hand. If they do it frequently, (you see it twice) you know that they have some problems with their game. First, you know that they likely have some discipline problems, they probably should have folded preflop, but they just had to see the flop with ...fill in the blank.... and now that they missed, they have to fold, probably one round too late, and one big bet too late. Second, they might have tactical weaknesses, if their hand was really good enough to play, it probably should have been good enough to threebet, and see how things went from there. Finally, they probably also do bad arithmatic, what hand would you really want to see the flop with, that couldn't take one off on the flop getting at least 13-1 odds. The kind of players that make this play frequently, are the kind that you want to value bet against alot, when they might have kicker problems, and whenever they are in the pot, you want to make sure that a bet gets made on the flop, so they have an opportunity to fold.

Anyway, hope this helps if you decide to play some of these fairly suspect holdings.

[Bob T.]

I thought that at least one of you guys was going to ask me this tough question.

Suppose the river is an apparent blank. You check, and your opponent bets. Getting 10-1 on your river call, do you call with your pair of deuces, no kicker, hoping that your opponent now has overcards.

[AceHigh]

"some people advocate playing any two suited in the blinds,"

In a mid-limit post, I remember Sklansky said 73s was +EV in the small blind for 1/2 bet. Now my memory may be off, but I'm sticking to my story.

Also, I noticed some posts by skp, where he has called raises in BB with 32s, so I'm thinking these calls are marginal but profitable.

Another thing I like about these really crappy hands, suited 2's and 3's, is that an Ace is often your friend. So you can sometimes trap a preflop raiser for a lot of bets if he has top pair and you make your straight.

[MRBAA]

I think 5-2 s is too weak, even at the price. I don't really like any low suited connectors here -- 8-7s is about as low as I'd really like to go, because now I can potentially make top pair or have the top or middle of a straight draw as well as my flush. It's so easy to be dominated with smaller hands when you do hit them. Imagine how big a pot you could lose against someone playing a higher two suited or a 76s that makes a higher flush than you when A-3-4 do come. Now if the line up is very passive and loose, so you're not likely to have to call 2 bets on the flop when you get a piece and yet are likely to get called when you hit big, then it's better for you. But against even okay players, or bad but aggressive ones, I think these hands are money losers. I think of my blinds as an ante and if I happen to have a hand when I have to "ante", great. If not, I'm not going out of my way to defend unless I think someone is stealing. Especially because I'll have bad position when I do play.

[Nottom]

I think its player dependant, a lot of players give up on the river with something like AK especially against a blind. I would probably make the call often though, even if only to show off a hand like this for advertising purposes.