View Full Version : Action Completion?
The Yugoslavian
10-01-2005, 02:40 AM
On bubble in a Poker Stars $55+5 Turbo.
Seat 1 (SB): Hero (1050 chippies)
Seat 4 (BB): Al Cabone (1770 chippies and an awful name)
Seat 8 (UTG): deut23-10 (2690 chippies)
Seat 9 (btn): GABED (7990 chippies AND CANNOT TURN OFF HIS CAPS LOCK)
GABED is the button for this hand and the blinds are 100/200 with 25 antes so 400 starts out in the pot.
<font color="blue">READS:
GABED loves to call small(ish) stacks preflop. Cabone is likely too loose preflop to pushes but doesn't go overboard calling down. He happens to be quite active-spaztastic postflop player and . Doesn't mind bluffing chips and/or taking mediocre hands too far (he loves sucking out tho /images/graemlins/wink.gif )</font>
<font color="red">Action!</font>
deut23-10 folds like a little batch.
GABED limps.
Hero has A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif and ?.
Cabone left to act.
If fold why?
If push why?
If complete, what is the plan?
There are exactly two opinions (Lori and Stanzee) I care about here for completely different reasons.
Yugoslav
<font color="white">J/k, all thoughts are welcome, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.</font>
Edited by durron597 cuz Yugo's hand was invisible
skipperbob
10-01-2005, 02:43 AM
I checked w/ "FB";...He says "Poosh"...I say "Moeron"
Am I just blind, what is your hand?
skipperbob
10-01-2005, 02:46 AM
"FB" = Why? = Because that's all he knows how to say
"SFB" = Why? = Because he thinks you are a moeron /images/graemlins/grin.gif
1) Stack sizes [x]
2) Reads [x]
3) Hot avatar [x]
4) Hand [ ]
The Yugoslavian
10-01-2005, 02:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Am I just blind, what is your hand?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, i'm just a huge idiot. Guess I should post more hands...I'm such a n0Ob! /images/graemlins/frown.gif
My hand is A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Yugoslav
At least everyone is looking at my HH before I can fix it! /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif
lorinda
10-01-2005, 02:47 AM
Not as blind as me. I saw that hero had a pair of tens when I first replied.
I think I know where hero is going with this post, and I think he might be right, so I'm not going to say anymore until I've re-read it several times.
Lori
I fold because other two plays are pretty wrong, IMHO.
lorinda
10-01-2005, 02:51 AM
I think we can call here for the reason implied in the post title.
I'm feeling evasive.
Lori
The Yugoslavian
10-01-2005, 02:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm feeling evasive.
[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="white">
Please feel free to pm me and drop knowledge if this happens to be the case.
</font>
Yugoslav
lastchance
10-01-2005, 02:54 AM
I don't like completing OOP, seeing 3 to a flop with t400, nearly half Hero's stack already in there.
For me, this is a push/fold. I take the dead money, my trusty A4s, and my desperate stack, and send it towards the middle.
Ah... Just realized what you're getting at. It's definitely an interesting line, just not one that I take.
durron597
10-01-2005, 02:57 AM
I push now because:
1) If BB raises you basically are screwed if you just call
2) You are against two opponents, the odds of one of them flopping a pair when you don't flop an ace is something like 40% or so (that is ballpark) which means if you call and then push any flop you are crushed 40% of the time.
3) If you aren't intending to stop-and-go then you put in 11% of your stack and then fold 2/3 of the time which sucks.
4) I don't mind calling and then c/ring allin if you flop an ace but I don't think you make as much as when you just push (that is gut, I didn't do math)
5) Most of the time the limper has crap, he probably raises most pairs so either you chop a lot of the time or you have the best hand
6) With your stack I don't mind getting in as a 60% favorite most of the time against BB with dead money in the pot
7) If I fold here I have to find a better spot in the next 3 hands before the blinds hit me again, which I probably won't especially with a calling station on my left.
bluefeet
10-01-2005, 03:01 AM
only 100 more to call. not a crime against nature to complete 1/2 of one of your remaining 4.5 bb's.
complete
push any 2 hearts
push any ace
c/r a made flush
c/f a whiff
i don't know if you have more creative plans for the flop. any notion of sniffing out a mini-bluff by big-stack will be tough with BB lurking behind you. if you get a "favorable" flop - push it (3 hearts being the exception of course).
[ QUOTE ]
complete
push any 2 hearts
push any ace
c/r a made flushs
c/f a whiff
[/ QUOTE ]
I also like this line.
I don't like pushing cos given your read GABED is gonna call you somewhere around, oh, 100% of the time, and calling an all-in from him here would be only marginally profitable even if he was pushing ATC. Technically calling in that spot with A8o would be even less profitable, but I'd much rather push with that here given his limping range. At least A8 dominates a bunch of his hands. A4 doesn't even dominate A3 and A2.
Sooo
I like completing and check/folding whiffs, pushing a draw, and pushing or checking/min-betting an Ace.
The Yugoslavian
10-01-2005, 03:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
6) With your stack I don't mind getting in as a 60% favorite most of the time against BB with dead money in the pot
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd imagine at best I'm going to be like a 52% favorite here vs. the big stacks range of hands....I mean, he likes calling small stacks but he won't limp with any two at all. More like top 40-50% or so? That seems fair to me.
Yugoslav
helpmeout
10-01-2005, 03:11 AM
You are small stack with an ace in a large pot what is the question?
Pot is $600 you have $1050 limper likely has cheese you are the small stack.
You wont get many more favourable spots to double up.
[ QUOTE ]
You are small stack with an ace in a large pot what is the question?
Pot is $600 you have $1050 limper likely has cheese you are the small stack.
You wont get many more favourable spots to double up.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are thinking like an MTT player. The bubble warps this situation.
Scuba Chuck
10-01-2005, 03:14 AM
Based on your read, stop n go.
The Yugoslavian
10-01-2005, 03:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Based on your read, stop n go.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like that least here of the options I have so far considered (besides the fact that you don't technically 'stop' the action preflop here)
Holla!
Yugoslav
Doin' his best Raptor impresion /images/graemlins/blush.gif.
helpmeout
10-01-2005, 03:24 AM
What would big stack call with decent hands when he can steal the blinds?
He is likely limping with cheese like Q7s K5o etc all of which you are likely 60/40 ahead.
Add the extra dead money in the pot and it is very favourable.
What happens when you limp, sometimes you let BB call with a better Ace and you bust out when you flop an Ace. He will also put in a raise a few times.
You hand isnt that crash hot if you flop anything other than an Ace. You are likely getting called by at least the big stack when you flop a FD when he has a pair and a pair of 4s is weak.
Most times you will have to check/fold the flop unimproved.
By limping the likely scenario is you lose this hand you end up with $825 left on the next hand so you are looking at 4th regardless.
lorinda
10-01-2005, 03:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Most times you will have to check/fold the flop unimproved.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are almost there. What is the likely flop action if you take Yugo's reads into account.
Lori (Who may have written an article about this at some point)
The Yugoslavian
10-01-2005, 03:33 AM
Oh, I should probably point out that if my read on Cabone is a bit different and I think he's playing preflop more actively and pushing a lot then an action minraise here from is a great option regardless of my hand. A true action bluff.
/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Yugoslav
helpmeout
10-01-2005, 03:35 AM
BB bets anything you fold a pair of 4s and push with a FD and get beat by a pair unimproved.
20% of the time you flop an Ace with no guarantee of doubling up.
lorinda
10-01-2005, 03:36 AM
You missed a player out. His reads may also apply, although we don't know for sure.
Lori
helpmeout
10-01-2005, 03:42 AM
Well its obvious that big stack is gonna call you with a pair.
So you are gonna have to commit your stack in most situations other than when you check/fold and have just over 800 chips in the BB.
lorinda
10-01-2005, 03:47 AM
The point is, he will also call the other guy with a pair.
Our call can induce action that in itself can get us into third place.
Given that our hand isn't actually appalling, and that the other two players have the potential to push all in, and call all in, our presence in the pot can lead to the BB getting himself knocked out.
We can also flop something.
Now, I'm not saying that this is a common play, in fact I've stated before that I think it's very uncommon. I do however think that in this situation, with a limping calling station and an aggressive other short stack that Yugo can limp here and try to generate action at the cost of only 100 chips.
He may check fold the flop but find himself in the money.
Lori
raptor517
10-01-2005, 03:49 AM
EZ limp imo. i like seein a flop here. holla
helpmeout
10-01-2005, 03:52 AM
fair enough but if BB pushes preflop you fold right
lorinda
10-01-2005, 03:53 AM
Yes.
I want him to push preflop. Limper has a habit of calling short stacks.....
I think my limp gives him more chance to push.
Lori
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