Empire rules.

[lorinda]

I'm curious how the moderator of this forum can offer rakeback at Empire in direct opposition to Empire affiliate rule

You shall not and shall not authorise, assist or encourage any third party to:

3.2.9 offer any so-called "rake-back" schemes or similar which offers or allows a proportion of the player's rake to be returned to the player in any form;

link (http://affiliate.empirepoker.com/Agreement.asp)

and also wonder if 2+2 know about this.

Lori

[Ron-Mexico]

I stand corrected

[rt1]

affiliateEV.com is NOT rakeback. We signup affiliates and help them manage their player base.

[lorinda]

But you are assisting third partys to offer rakeback. Otherwise what is the purpose of.

[ QUOTE ]
If you run a website and would like your players to have access to their statistics we can export this data to your website via a live feed. The data can be in plain text, xml, cvs, or any other format you require

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely an affiliate would only be offering their players this information if those players were getting rakeback.

I don't think it's causing drama, I would just rather this were cleared up at the start of the forum.

Lori

[rt1]

[ QUOTE ]
But you are assisting third partys to offer rakeback. Otherwise what is the purpose of.

[ QUOTE ]
If you run a website and would like your players to have access to their statistics we can export this data to your website via a live feed. The data can be in plain text, xml, cvs, or any other format you require

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely an affiliate would only be offering their players this information if those players were getting rakeback.

I don't think it's causing drama, I would just rather this were cleared up at the start of the forum.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Affiliates want these stats. They may use them to provide rakeback stats or just for personal book keeping.

Personally, I always encourage my affiliates to offer rakeback / prizes. It is a great way to build a player base and keep your users happy.

Empire is well aware of all of the sites that offer rakeback.

[lorinda]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I always encourage my affiliates to offer rakeback / prizes. It is a great way to build a player base and keep your users happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how encouraging people to actively break the rule posted above (and by doing so breaking it yourself) is a way to promote yourselves as an honest business.

I'm sure that you are an honest business, I just don't think that openly breaking the rules is the best way to promote yourselves as such.

It is not difficult to retain 99% of your customers and play 100% within the rules. I have sent 'cup a PM to explain one point that I mean (and also to show that I'm not just here to spoil things)

Lori

[MicroBob]

why pm cup?
did he help set up this new forum?

do we know who is behind this forum?

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
why pm cup?
did he help set up this new forum?

do we know who is behind this forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't quite figured it out.

Honestly, though. I really don't see this forum being THAT useful. Individual affiliates are still not allowed to be discussed right?

[Inthacup]

Bob, I am a moderator here and do have ties to AffiliateEV.

If anyone has questions or suggestions(as was the case with Lori) for this forum that you would prefer to ask in private, you can PM me or any of the other moderators listed at the bottom of the page and we will address them asap.

Cup

[MicroBob]

I have searched around and also went to affiliateev website but can't find any information on what specific 2+2'ers are involved.

I would prefer that this information not be kept private.

i believe craigr responded to a post as though he were possibly involved...and lorinda almost implied that cup was in this somehow.

Kind of curious.
But also thinking it is in everyone's best interests to know who's behind it here.

[MicroBob]

thanks cup - do we get to know who else?

[lorinda]

Sorry MB, I just looked at the mods at the bottom of the page.

Lori

[MicroBob]

you think i'm smart enough to actually do something so complicated like looking at the bottom of the page? (thanks for the handy tip!! I'm less than brilliant this eve).

[rt1]

Its me, morgant, inthecup, craig_r, and some others. We are all experienced / long term affiliates.

[TheMetetron]

Aren't you, morgant and crag r all raketracker?

At least that's what I'm assuming you are. Never really known who's screen name that is.

[morgant]

here is our initial thought process behind this forum.

we built this forum to be informative about rakeback, the process involved, how it works, how one gets it, and eventually we want to help evaluating the different rakeback providers(we think). there are many misnomers in the rakeback game, for instance the very original topic of this thread. the letter of the law and the spirit of the law are two entirely different things lorinda. i am in continual contact with the owners of empire poker and while your reading of their rules is accurate, you are the first person to ever bring that to my attention.

this forum is experimental for us and we will learn the process by trial and error. We are trying to create an unbiased forum, that provides information on how to become an affiliate. and how to obtain rakeback. we didnt sponsor the forum by www.raketracker.com (http://www.raketracker.com) because we didnt want to overshadow the concept of this forum by plastering raketracker all over it. we feel the players, once informed about the rakeback/affiliate process, will be able to decide for themselves who to choose, and who the longstanding, honest, and professional affiliates are.

as lorinda has pointed out, there are many intricacies in the rakeback business, i have built an organization around these rules, and spent thousands of hours along with my partners establishing contacts with the sites we represent and learning what we can and cant do, what the players can and cant do, and how to most effectively provide this service for our users.

we dont allow rakeback %'s for many reasons, most importantly, the sites dont allow it. lorinda may ask then, how do we offer it? the sites dont mind paying us within their structured tiers for the marketing we do for them. however, when affilaite XYZ(hypothetical example) starts offering 39% to his players, and that site only gives out 40%. the affiliates like myself, who have built a business around this, cant survive on a 1% profit margin. in time affilaite XYZ wont be able to survive either and eventually the players will be emailing affilaite XYZ asking where the past months payment is. if the market has raised rakeback % to 39%, i must then go negotiate with the pokersite to give me 45% so i can remain profitable and competitive. now the site is struggling to remain profitable and cant offer me 45%, then with the headaches and nonsense they must consider killing the rakeback market, which party did by removing the tracker reporting. in a long winded way, i am hoping some of you read this, and can understand that getting a 1/4th discount on your poker play is a pretty good deal. by bartering and trying to get more, this could potentially kill the market. hence our refusal to allow percentage talks.

we appreciate any questions, or comments, but i hope this summed up some issues. i have a very strong understanding of this market, we created www.affiliateEV.com (http://www.affiliateEV.com) so people can take advantage of our knowledge and contacts in the online poker world to build business for themselves, or group together a bunch of friends to get a discount on their poker play across the internet.

thanks
morg.