pocket 8s in a $4-8 full killpot

[RadioMike]

Limit $4-8 full kill in a Tacoma, WA card room...

I was in seat 1, posting the big blind in a kill pot. Seat 7 (a straight-forward player) had won two straight pots, and posted $8.

Seat 4 (no standard read, except right now he's clearly on tilt) called $8, seat 7 checked, and I completed with 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

The rest of the 9-handed table folded.

I was short-stacked, down to $39 after calling.

The flop comes 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet $8, seat 4 calls, seat 7 raises to $16, hero and seat 4 call.

The turn is 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check, full-tilt seat four bets $16, seat 7 raises to $32.

What would you do? I need help on this one.... suffice to say, I was cussing myself out on the drive home...

-mike

[hobbsmann]

ummmm, 3-bet and it's not close.

[ QUOTE ]
ummmm, 3-bet and it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, either get rich or go broke trying.

[Azhrarn]

I'd be inclined to raise pre-flop. You're up against two opponents, one of which has a random hand. You have an advantage here, even out of position.

I like the bet out on the flop, but I would 3-bet when given the chance. You almost certainly have the best hand right now. Why not get your money in there?

On the turn, you have to call. Seat 7 might have a better house than you, but even straightforward players will raise here with less. Put the rest of your chips in.

Oh, and if you're trying to play seriously, you should avoid letting yourself get that low on chips.

[sean c]

This is a great example of why you should never have less than 10bb in play when in a game. If you folded your last $30 that was terrible.

[private joker]

Why not 3-bet the flop? This isn't a safe board to wait around on -- it has two hearts and straight possibilities. I'd try to push out seat 4 by charging him 2 cold with a 3-bet, and improve your chances to win a big pot.

[RadioMike]

On the drive home, I was actually upset about calling. I called the turn raise, going all-in with my final $23, seat 4 also called, going all-in for less, and seat 7 turned over the K-9 for the bigger boat. Full-tilt Seat 4 was on a flush draw, and the river was a blank (I was hoping for my one out, the final 8).

I agree I should have three-bet the flop, although in retrospect that would not have eliminated seat 7's top two pair.

Thanks for your suggestions, and yes, I should not have allowed myself to get short-stacked like that /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

-mike

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not 3-bet the flop? This isn't a safe board to wait around on -- it has two hearts and straight possibilities. I'd try to push out seat 4 by charging him 2 cold with a 3-bet, and improve your chances to win a big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind calling the flop, because 95% of the time you can get a cr in on the turn even if a blank hits and they will call here anyway.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind calling the flop, because 95% of the time you can get a cr in on the turn even if a blank hits and they will call here anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you. The turn will check through far more often than that.Not taking the lead here means the hero will miss bets far more often than he will gain bets via a check raise.

Don't be weak.... 3-bet the flop - you are out of position, get the money in the pot NOW. Bet the turn.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[ QUOTE ]
On the drive home, I was actually upset about calling

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree I should have three-bet the flop, although in retrospect that would not have eliminated seat 7's top two pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is results-oriented thinking. You need to 3-bet the flop, and as played, 3-bet the turn. You're seeing trip 9s or someone putting too much stock in AK or a big pair MUCH more often than a better full house. It's a bummer you lost this one pot, but that's poker. Next time this sort of situation happens you'll probably take down a $200 pot. And keep more chips in front of you, but you already know that.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
On the drive home, I was actually upset about calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

What!? You can be upset about losing the pot, but surely you cannot allow yourself to be upset about seeing this hand to showdown.

Reading between the lines it seems maybe the monetary loss is too big for either your bankroll or your tolerance.

[baronzeus]

i would 3bet, 5bet if he 4bets, the ncall down after taht.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind calling the flop, because 95% of the time you can get a cr in on the turn even if a blank hits and they will call here anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you. The turn will check through far more often than that.Not taking the lead here means the hero will miss bets far more often than he will gain bets via a check raise.

Don't be weak.... 3-bet the flop - you are out of position, get the money in the pot NOW. Bet the turn.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm at a loss for words. I would bet money that at an average game 5/10 or below the flop raiser will bet the turn if checked to somewhere in the nieghborhood of 70%+ of the time, unless whatever holding he has becomes counterfit or a super obvious scare card hits. This shouldn't be too hard to confirm with a sizeable database.

[Borodog]

70 != 95

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
70 != 95

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit that both of these numbers are being pulled out of my kiester. I never found myself in a situation where I needed to give them a numeric value. I am as certain as I can be without proof that the preflop raiser will bet the turn if checked to. There should be a fairly easy way to prove this one way or the other by consulting a fairly large database, and I think further speculation is pointless without consulting one, so I'll wait for verification or to be disproven.