Coaching basics...

[krishanleong]

Coaching is a funny this. The paradox is a good coach can make much more playing than coaching. So why coach? Well you can't put an infinite number of hours in so the time you aren't playing poker coaching can be good. Coaching makes you question the reasoning behind why you make plays which can make you a better player.

So how do you get a coach? I would just PM a bunch of people who's opinion you respect and see if they would be willing to coach you. I would try and get someone who seems successful at the limit you play or has some idea of the transition you are making. (1/2->3/6, 3/6-5/10) I was lucky and found ggbman just after he successfully transitioned to 10/20. You can also get a higher limit player to coach you but it will be more expensive and not necessarily more valuable.

There are two main types of coaching. A sweat session where your coach watches you play by watching your tables. Usually 2 tables is the norm. Any more and you don't have enough time to talk about exerything. Generally you communicate using AIM or on the phone. One benefit to AIM is you can save the conversation for later review. I look at my sweat session with Allin once a month.

The other type of coaching is a hand history review. You should 200 random hands to someone, he goes over them and then you either get together to discuss over AIM or phone, or he e-mails you back comments on each hand. I prefer discussion since it's interactive and not everyone is great at explaning their thoughts on paper. If you ship someone hands, try playing without a HUD as the responses will be more meaningful since you won't be working on specific player reads.

I've been coached by Alobar, Allin, and ggbman. I think Kiddo is next on my list. Each of them have been exceptionally useful. I'd definitely put it on par with reading a good book. I've asked for coaching from at least 15 people. There are a ton of people I would love to get coached by. I feel like there are a ton of solid posters who would be able to coach effectively. Just PM a few of your favorite posters with an emphasis on people working on or just above your limit.

If you want to get better, you are a fool if you don't try and get strong people to review your game. At the standard prices it's really a no-brainer.

For lower limits, 2/4-3/6 I think 50$ is the upper end of fair pricing. For 5/10 I'd say 50-100. For 10/20+ I'd say 50-500. The prices are all per hour.

I have coached in the past but until I go pro in the summer, I won't have the time.

Krishan

[RunDownHouse]

Thanks for the write-up. I appreciate it.

[ QUOTE ]
I have coached in the past but until I go pro in the summer, I won't have the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way to stick that in at the end /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[MoDOH]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the write-up. I appreciate it.


Quote:
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I have coached in the past but until I go pro in the summer, I won't have the time.


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Way to stick that in at the end

[/ QUOTE ]

Smooth...

[cartman]

How does the compensation work with hand histories. Is it just a flat amount instead of hourly?

Thanks,
Cartman

[DMBFan23]

it was for me the two times I've had it done (1/2 and 5/10)

[gildwulf]

How often do you do it? Would you do like 5-10 sessions? Maybe I'm just cheap, but 10 sessions of $100/hr is 20% of my bankroll.

[DMBFan23]

I had someone look over some 1/2 hands, that was pretty cheap as they weren't a high stakes player, and they were fairly sympathetic to me being a micro'er. it was cheap given the value I got out of it, especially at that point in my poker career.

later I had a 1/2 sweat session when james did his SEVERELY discounted coaching. that was also worth it, but I kind of knew it'd be a one shot deal so I didnt have to worry about how often I could afford it.

Alobar looked over some 5/10 hands of mine when I first moved up, just to make sure I had my head screwed on straight. I wouldn't do it every month, especially given how few hands I've played lately, but it seems useful, at least to me, when changing environments (moving up a limit, moving from SH->full or vice versa)

[Victor]

so, anyone wanna look at my 10/20 hands?

[Poldi]

[ QUOTE ]
so, anyone wanna look at my 10/20 hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

I´d like to analyze each others 10/20 hand histories. If you are interested, just send me a PM. I already did this at 3/6 and 5/10 and liked it a lot.

[Justin A]

I would be interested in doing a coaching swap, where no money is exchanged, just each player try to coach the other.

[TStoneMBD]

i recently came up with an idea and am considering following through on it. i want to start recording my sessions through a screen recording program and allow people to download my sessions in .avi format. 4tabling for 2 hours comes to about a 1.4GB download. if there is enough interest i could create a website and forum and have people point out hands that they feel i misplayed. this would essentially work out as free coaching for me less the hosting fees, and i know of a few people who are interested in watching my sessions. would anyone else be interested in downloading some sessions and analyzing my play or would it not be worth the time? this method of screen recording allows the viewers to see HUD stats and my hole cards, and should be much more efficient and enjoyable than communicating hole cards through aim or hand history files.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be interested in doing a coaching swap, where no money is exchanged, just each player try to coach the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to do the same for 5/10. PM if interested.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
i recently came up with an idea and am considering following through on it. i want to start recording my sessions through a screen recording program and allow people to download my sessions in .avi format. 4tabling for 2 hours comes to about a 1.4GB download. if there is enough interest i could create a website and forum and have people point out hands that they feel i misplayed. this would essentially work out as free coaching for me less the hosting fees, and i know of a few people who are interested in watching my sessions. would anyone else be interested in downloading some sessions and analyzing my play or would it not be worth the time? this method of screen recording allows the viewers to see HUD stats and my hole cards, and should be much more efficient and enjoyable than communicating hole cards through aim or hand history files.

[/ QUOTE ]

that'd be a huge download...why not compress it some? you wouldn't lose enough quality to not see what's going on...

[mcvalenc]

I'd be up for exchanging HH's with anyone who currently plays 10/20, just PM me.

[ QUOTE ]
i recently came up with an idea and am considering following through on it. i want to start recording my sessions through a screen recording program and allow people to download my sessions in .avi format. 4tabling for 2 hours comes to about a 1.4GB download. if there is enough interest i could create a website and forum and have people point out hands that they feel i misplayed. this would essentially work out as free coaching for me less the hosting fees, and i know of a few people who are interested in watching my sessions. would anyone else be interested in downloading some sessions and analyzing my play or would it not be worth the time? this method of screen recording allows the viewers to see HUD stats and my hole cards, and should be much more efficient and enjoyable than communicating hole cards through aim or hand history files.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it.

Lozing

[Jgents]

Going off on a mini-rant.

The problem with coaching as I see it:
(a) the long run is very, very long. You won't know for sure if your coach is even a winning player, a marginal player, etc.
(b)the fees are exuberant and therefore out of reach for most players who potentially could benefit from coaching in the first place
(c)But the kicker: Why pay for something you can get for free. 2+2 Archives > paying your coach $200-$500 per appointment/session.

I could understand someone paying for coaching if they are playing high stakes NL cash games or tournaments (because this adds a more psychological element that hasn't been discussed at length and understood), but for limit and specifically 6-max, a wealth of information/advice/strategy is already available from reputable and proven winners in the archives if you are willing to research and apply. A lot of what they said then still applies to today's games.

[MoDOH]

Awesome idea! I´d definitely be interested...

[TStoneMBD]

i already tried to tamper with compression and i dont think itll get better than 1.4GB or so. i really dont know too much about computers so there might be programs i am unaware of. if i compress the quality to 50% and compress the .avi into a compressed zip file it comes to 1.4GB. ive also tried xvid, dvix and saving the record in .swf. none seem to be any more efficient then this, but one thing that seems optimistic is that i can significantly cut down on frame rate which might save an extreme amount of space. ill tamper with it some more.

im glad there is interest in this idea. someone even pmed me telling me they would pay me for these avi files and offered to host them for me. i dont have any intentions to charge for the avis as long as i receive positive feedback on my play and the server fees dont go ballistic.

let me know if there is any feedback on how to improve upon my idea or if anyone thinks they can help.

thanks for the input.

[waffle]

[ QUOTE ]
the server fees dont go ballistic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Distribute the files using bittorrent. This way some people from the forum can share the burden of hosting/uploading.

This sounds like a great idea. It's a great way to review an entire session.

Also, one positive to a XViD file is that I can view it without unzipping. If I want to keep the uncompressed AVI on my hard drive for easy watching .. it sounds like it's gonna take up a whole bunch of space. I'd rather have an XViD video than a .zip of an uncompressed AVI.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
i already tried to tamper with compression and i dont think itll get better than 1.4GB or so. i really dont know too much about computers so there might be programs i am unaware of. if i compress the quality to 50% and compress the .avi into a compressed zip file it comes to 1.4GB. ive also tried xvid, dvix and saving the record in .swf. none seem to be any more efficient then this, but one thing that seems optimistic is that i can significantly cut down on frame rate which might save an extreme amount of space. ill tamper with it some more.

im glad there is interest in this idea. someone even pmed me telling me they would pay me for these avi files and offered to host them for me. i dont have any intentions to charge for the avis as long as i receive positive feedback on my play and the server fees dont go ballistic.

let me know if there is any feedback on how to improve upon my idea or if anyone thinks they can help.

thanks for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know much about any of this stuff, but I'd be interested in this and I'm willing to help in any way needed.

[Nietzsche]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be interested in doing a coaching swap, where no money is exchanged, just each player try to coach the other.

[/ QUOTE ]
Great idea. I'd be interested in swapping with someone playing 10/20. Perhaps one hour and then we swap?

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i already tried to tamper with compression and i dont think itll get better than 1.4GB or so. i really dont know too much about computers so there might be programs i am unaware of. if i compress the quality to 50% and compress the .avi into a compressed zip file it comes to 1.4GB. ive also tried xvid, dvix and saving the record in .swf. none seem to be any more efficient then this, but one thing that seems optimistic is that i can significantly cut down on frame rate which might save an extreme amount of space. ill tamper with it some more.

im glad there is interest in this idea. someone even pmed me telling me they would pay me for these avi files and offered to host them for me. i dont have any intentions to charge for the avis as long as i receive positive feedback on my play and the server fees dont go ballistic.

let me know if there is any feedback on how to improve upon my idea or if anyone thinks they can help.

thanks for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know much about any of this stuff, but I'd be interested in this and I'm willing to help in any way needed.

[/ QUOTE ]


me and tstone have already been recording our sessions using a Flash recorder called "ViewletCam". Check it out on download.com

[Lurker4]

good post, thanks. Probably something I will look into eventually.

[Lurker4]

[ QUOTE ]
i recently came up with an idea and am considering following through on it. i want to start recording my sessions through a screen recording program and allow people to download my sessions in .avi format. 4tabling for 2 hours comes to about a 1.4GB download. if there is enough interest i could create a website and forum and have people point out hands that they feel i misplayed. this would essentially work out as free coaching for me less the hosting fees, and i know of a few people who are interested in watching my sessions. would anyone else be interested in downloading some sessions and analyzing my play or would it not be worth the time? this method of screen recording allows the viewers to see HUD stats and my hole cards, and should be much more efficient and enjoyable than communicating hole cards through aim or hand history files.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do it. I'd be very interested in this and I'm sure others would be as well.

[Lurker4]

[ QUOTE ]
(a) the long run is very, very long. You won't know for sure if your coach is even a winning player, a marginal player, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why krishan said to PM someone whose play/posts you respect. You'll know that they are a solid winning player if you respect their play.

[ QUOTE ]
(b)the fees are exuberant and therefore out of reach for most players who potentially could benefit from coaching in the first place

[/ QUOTE ]

For newer/lower stakes players, probably; although they might not be the ones that would benefit most from coaching. For 5/10+ players, the money, while significant, could easily be very worth it if it adds .xBB/100 to that players winrate. They could easily make up the $ quickly if the coaching is helpful.

[ QUOTE ]
(c)But the kicker: Why pay for something you can get for free. 2+2 Archives > paying your coach $200-$500 per appointment/session.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think many of the players that this post and coaching are targeted towards are ones that have read a lot of the archives and read this forum regularly. Those players already have the knowledge gained from the archives (which is definitely very valuable and might easily be worth more than coaching for some). In addition, we all have leaks that we're unaware of, and might not be addressed by just posting hands we think are interesting, while our leaks lie elsewhere in the uninteresting hands. Coaching lets someone look over all of your hands, not just the ones you have questions on.

I think your points are very valid, especially for newer players, but don't necessarily hold true for more experienced players looking to get better.

[ggbman]

Let me just say, and i am being completely serious, that i am very impressed with some of the ideas put forth in this thread by TStone, Baronzeus, Justin A, etc...

I personally turn inwards when i try to focus on improving my game, but the stuff you guys are suggesting sounds very intresting. I would definitly be interested in taking part in some of this stuff.

Gabe

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me just say, and i am being completely serious, that i am very impressed with some of the ideas put forth in this thread by TStone, Baronzeus, Justin A, etc...

I personally turn inwards when i try to focus on improving my game, but the stuff you guys are suggesting sounds very intresting. I would definitly be interested in taking part in some of this stuff.

Gabe

[/ QUOTE ]


cool, we can watch you run good /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ggbman]

Yeah, 5bb/100 is just running average though right? /images/graemlins/wink.gif I ran hotten this month than i have run since december, which was kind of due, but at the same time very welcome. What was funny about it was i still had some of my biggest swings ever on daily basis BB wise. (obviously $$$ wise doesnt mean anything since im playing higher than i used to)

In reality, i ran average/poor on everything except 30/60 and 20/40, but since 80% of my hands were there it didnt matter. Party making only 1 50 game means that probably wont even be worth it, so i hope i keep running good in the 30 /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[TStoneMBD]

im testing out programs right now but im having issues with the software. i dont know if this idea will be realized or not. hopefully i can work the kinks out of the technical problems, but there are really quite a few right now. :/

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
i recently came up with an idea and am considering following through on it. i want to start recording my sessions through a screen recording program and allow people to download my sessions in .avi format. 4tabling for 2 hours comes to about a 1.4GB download. if there is enough interest i could create a website and forum and have people point out hands that they feel i misplayed. this would essentially work out as free coaching for me less the hosting fees, and i know of a few people who are interested in watching my sessions. would anyone else be interested in downloading some sessions and analyzing my play or would it not be worth the time? this method of screen recording allows the viewers to see HUD stats and my hole cards, and should be much more efficient and enjoyable than communicating hole cards through aim or hand history files.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great idea. Please keep details posted.

[helpmeout]

coaching is ----EV because it produces more good players

all we need is more people taking out $100k+ a year out of the poker economy

[Luzion]

[ QUOTE ]
im testing out programs right now but im having issues with the software. i dont know if this idea will be realized or not. hopefully i can work the kinks out of the technical problems, but there are really quite a few right now. :/

[/ QUOTE ]

Very nice idea Tstone. This idea is even better then your "connect to someones comp via NetMeeting and watch them play live" idea.

[oreogod]

I agree on coaching. 2 months after I decided to seriously learn the inner workings of poker, I became good friends w/ matt, a now good friend of mine.

When I met him, his regular game was 150/300 and 100/200 (and 50/100 whenever games where good). anyway, before he met me he tried to teach some ppl and it didnt work because they had no drive for it, didnt want to put the time in to study, read..etc.

We talked and he agreed to show me whats what. This meant going over to his place watching him play, having him sweat me, going to casinos together..etc. Asking him questions...etc. He showed me everything. It was also a super plus situation for me since we live within 10 minutes of each other and pretty much hang out 5days out of the week.

best of all, hes really really good. One of the best HU and shorthanded players I know. (as a sidenote: his favorite player on the internet to play is Neverwin. No lie. He thinks Neverwin is okay, but spews far to much)

Anyway, having someone to chat and talk to about poker, to watch play and help understand...it really accelerated my learning and is probably why Im as good as I am right now.

[arkady]

I personally disagree with the major gist of this point. Getting coaching from too many people will quickly become detrimental as everyone has a different style/approach to the game. You will lose perception of what is right/wrong and might mix up different ideas.

What is the point of getting coached from more than 2 people? Really?

That being said, I am offended by a lack of request from you, but I shall let it pass as I do not coach. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[oreogod]

His loss. You could have taught him the ways of T3s. He could have been a contender.

Oh well, I do agree that a constant trip around the block w/ various coaches could be deterimental. I would seek help from maybe 1-2 and keep going back if u need more help.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
i recently came up with an idea and am considering following through on it. i want to start recording my sessions through a screen recording program and allow people to download my sessions in .avi format. 4tabling for 2 hours comes to about a 1.4GB download. if there is enough interest i could create a website and forum and have people point out hands that they feel i misplayed. this would essentially work out as free coaching for me less the hosting fees, and i know of a few people who are interested in watching my sessions. would anyone else be interested in downloading some sessions and analyzing my play or would it not be worth the time? this method of screen recording allows the viewers to see HUD stats and my hole cards, and should be much more efficient and enjoyable than communicating hole cards through aim or hand history files.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do it.

[NLSoldier]

change your avatar plz, im getting you confused with bobbyi. thx.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
change your avatar plz, im getting you confused with bobbyi. thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy [censored], I thought that's who I replied to.

[The Truth]

sounds like a great idea overall. I'm always up for improving.

-blake

[witeknite]

Your file size problem is probably a resolution issue. Snagit captures the same rez as the area you are recording. I'm playing around with VirtualDub trying to get a file that is good enough to see clearly, but isn't gignormous. I'll keep you posted.

WiteKnite

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
change your avatar plz, im getting you confused with bobbyi. thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy [censored], I thought that's who I replied to.

[/ QUOTE ]

click view image so it enlarges. i ahve been enlightened.