Were there other options for playing this hand?

[Shargaas]

This was a hand from an on-line micro-limit game. I had only taken a seat for about 5 minutes, but from that time, the game seemed to be fairly passive, little pre-flop raising, and around 1/2 the players seeing the flop. At the time there were 6 players playing.

I am in the BB with K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, button calls, SB folds
I raised, and the limpers called, 3 to see the flop.

Flop: 9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif 7 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

I checked, hoping for the check-raise, UTG+1 bets, button raises, I re-raise, UTG+1 cold calls, CO caps, all call

Turn: A /forums/images/icons/club.gif

I check, UTG+1 checks, CO checks

River: 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

I check, UTG+1 bets, CO folds, I call.

I will post the results a bit later along with my thoughts during the hand. Based on how my opponents played, what hands would you have put them on? Feel free to criticize my play on all streets.

[pufferfish]

Looks like you got button and CO mixed up on the flop?

The flop action makes me think that at least one of your opponents has 2-pair or a set. I think you played the flop fine.

When it gets checked through on the turn I have to discount the set. I hope I would have gritted my teeth and bet. The Ace probably scared your opponents more than you.

Given that the turn was checked through I think I would have bet the river.

I’ll hope UTG+1 has just a Queen, but I’m still worried about two pair.

pf

[Louie Landale]

"Feel free to criticize my play on all streets." Not to worry.

Button very likely has JT or less likely T8. UTG MAY have the set but I doubt it; he probably has AQ and got too tricky and checked the turn. He may also have a stubborn QJ. He may also have made the 86 straight.

In these passive games with a hand worth a river call, its USUALLY better to bet it out yourself since, generally, the opponents will call with more weak hands (like Qs) then they will bet (like bluffs). Notice that this particular "bet for value" does NOT have to actually earn money so long as it looses LESS money then making a crying call. Since you have no particular reason to fear a raise on this one (the turn was checked around) I'd have bet this one out.

- Louie

[pufferfish]

Louie,

With the Ace coming on the turn would you bet out or would you check in order to avoid being faced with a raise.

pf

[Homer]

The ace on the turn should not scare you given the action on the flop. CO does not have an ace unless he has exactly AQ, and this is not likely given his preflop limp. UTG+1 is probably on a draw with 86, T8 or JT given his bet on the flop and subsequent coldcall of two more bets. There is a chance you are behind CO's set or two-pair given that he capped the flop. However, he could be on a draw as well, or could be pushing top-pair hard. When the ace comes on the turn you should bet and fold to a raise. If you are just called on the turn you have a value bet on the river unless a straight/flush card comes, in which case you should probably check (depends on the exact card, though).

Given the way you played it, you have no reason not to bet the river, given that both of your opponents checked it through on the turn. It seems that both players were on draws, or at least UTG+1 was. CO may have top-pair and will call if you bet but will not bet if you check.

I'll guess:

UTG+1 - JT
CO - QT or QJ

-- Homer

[Homer]

Betting the turn should be routine. Given the action on the flop, it is highly unlikely that either opponent has an ace. They will be scared that you have an ace since you raised preflop. If you are going to check and call you should bet yourself and then fold to a raise. This way you can get out more cheaply if you are behind and charge the draws more to draw (and make more from the made hands).

-- Homer

[pufferfish]

When the ace comes on the turn you should bet and fold to a raise.

But Homer, aren’t you worried about a bluff (I know it’s micro, but still) or worse yet someone is raising with Q 9 or Q 7 (it is micro after all).

Do you think it’s unreasonable to call it down?

pf

[Homer]

Hmmmm, I guess you should probably call the turn bet and hope that the board pairs low on the river to counterfeit their two-pair and give you a better two-pair, or that a K comes to give you a set. If neither of these things happen you can check-fold the river because your one-pair is definitely no good. This way you are putting in two bets, just as you would be by going check-call, check-call, except by betting your are charging the draws and weaker made hands on the turn.

-- Homer

[Nottom]

UTG has a queen, I'll go with QJs for kicks.
CO had JT.

I would have bet the river here. You didn't lose any bets this time but given the check-thru on the turn, I think you need to bet here.

[Shargaas]

Oops. The pre-flop inforamtion was correct in that the button called and the CO folded but after that I referred to my opponent as the CO. It was in fact the button player who played through the river then folded. My apologies, I should have re-read my post more carefully.

[Shargaas]

The showdown revealed UTG+1 had Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif J /forums/images/icons/club.gif and I took the pot. With the button folding on the river, I do not know exactly what he had, and if he was on the straight draw post-flop, which seems the most likely scenario, was his capping the flop a good play?

After I check re-raised the flop and still got called and capped, I had a bad feeling I may be behind, but that the odds were still good enough that I had the best hand. The A on the turn probably scared me more than it should have. I was the pre-flop raiser, and with all the action on the flop, an A was unlikely. I feel now I should have bet both the turn and the river (esp. once the turn was checked through).

Thanks all for the input.

[pufferfish]

No problem at all.

pf

[pufferfish]

Never mind what I said, I got lost in the hand. /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

[rayrns]

I have read the other replies but not the results and I differ on one point. I think someone has the ace. On the microlimits I play I have seen as high as 3 players calling but never raising and then all 3 flop the ace on showdown and best kicker wins. I had it happen to K's last night in SB. I made every bet till I checked on showdown and not one raise when the Ace hit.

[tewall]

This is assuming no one will semi-bluff raise with a flush draw.

[Louie Landale]

True they may go to the river with just a stiff A overcard. And I d recall a hand years ago where me and the maniac traded raises throughout (I had only KK), and 3 players hit their stiff A on the river. But that's a rarity.

In this hand one bet and called a double bet and the other one raised twice. That's unlikely for someone with A9 or a lesser hand, so you really only need to worry about AQ or the slow-played AA.

So in this situation, the A was unlikely to hit them. Its also a scared card given the way Hero played his hand; who can have only KK but can also have a set of Qs or As or AQ.

- Louie