Notes?

[Exitonly]

How many of you use notes? (on players)

I've been lazy and havn't up until now, and i'm trying to start.

What kind of notes do you guys take?

Has it been helpful?

First note was about some guy that openlimped the button w/ AQs.

figured i'd want to know that

[Melchiades]

Mostly when I see someone limp with AA or KK UTG or something like that.

Also make notes when someone calls all in with trash.

Haven't really played enough to get too much use for them. I play mostly 10-20-30 buy in on stars, and with the huge fields it's not too often I stumble upon someone I have notes on.

[ethan]

If someone appears not to understand pot/implied odds or position, that's worth noting. I like knowing who'll call a pot-sized bet for 1/3 of their stack OOP with a flush draw. If I see someone limp-folding a bunch when blinds are big I'll note that. If they vary their raise sizes directly according to their hand strength, that's always nice to know.

I so far haven't gotten all that much benefit from checking my notes on someone, but taking the notes makes me pay more attention to people.

What I look after. Hopes this will come handy for you.

Preflop:
Raise size and position

Alot of players don't know this about themselves but they raise X amount when they have a strong hand and Y amount when they have a marginal hand or weak. If you can work out which is which, you’ll have a lot of guidance when deciding whether to play a marginal hand like AJ against a raise from this player. This goes for the miniraise too, you need to make notes if the min raise for this particular player mean "come on call me" or "I don't want you guys in the hand and I am not willing to bet more than this".

About position I am always writing notes about how often someone is raising pre-flop and from what position. Is the player likely to raise from CO or Button. Will they raise their blinds? Is the player aware of their position. If I don't see a player raise much pre-flop and he suddenly do from early position thats a warning sign.

This info will also give you an idea of how frequently someone raises, and when. If they’re raising three or more times a round, you can play with much more marginal hands than if they raise once every two rounds.

Starting hands.
Whenever I get to know their hands they have been raising preflop with, that's a note too.

Limpers action after a raise
If I am ever to raise with a couple of limpers behind me, I have notes on them telling me how often they will give up a hand after limping. I use this:

L/C (limp/call the raise)
L/F (limp/fold to raise)
L/R (limp/re-raise the raiser)

And when I see a limper limp and call a raise I'll add one to L/C +1. You get the point.

This is very useful since any player that limps and re-raises is dangerous because it almost invariably indicates strength and an unpredictable and possibly educated player

Raiser's action to a raise?
Same method here with...
Raise/Fold
Raise/Re-raise

If I have two-three on Raise/Fold I may throw in a raise against him if I have the slighest thought of him trying to steal the pot. If he has alot of Raise-Re-raise I will never raise him unless I got a premium hand (AA,KK) since he is probably gonna re-raise me and I push when it's my turn. No im not folding KK here preflop.

This note coupled with raise size and position is a deadly tool for tournaments where I re-steal alot of chips.

Betting after the flop

We can see a pattern here with continuation bets aswell. Some players seem to always make the same cb after the flop if they miss it and if they hit it, they make a whole new other bet... Aha. Some don't make a cb at all so the pot is yours without a fight.

1/2 CB
Pot Sized CB
No CB
Check/Raise

Those are the ones I keep track of here.

If a player checks alot and then mucks when he don't hit is my favorite. This of course gets harder to use aslonger the tournament goes on since the player gets more advanced but if you're up to someone weak, the pot is yours.

1/2 CB. Ever seen him betting out 1/2 of the pot just to fold to a re-raise. That's a note right there. Whenever he make a 1/2 bet next time, try to re-raise him again even if the flop missed you too. If he make a 3/4 or pot sized bet tho, be really cautious. The flop did hit him.

Pot sized CB: Same as above. Whenever the pattern don't fit the player, it's gonna be a raise from me.

Checking the flop

What does this mean? For some players, checking the flop means they usually hit something. Let's take notes on which ones that does this on a regular basis. What player checks and folds? How often do this player check/raise? It should all be in our notes.

This part of the notes working with the CB is a good deal. Makes no CB and checking the flop? Hmm this seems strange to me. I better watch out.

Draws
Is the player usually leading the betting when he/she is on a draw? Some players prefer you to do the betting and just calling if they got the odds. For the players that lead with draws you should try to scare them away once in a while with your hand. It can be alot more profitable deciding just what kind of draw they are on and if you don't think it hits call them down on the river.

When the pots are big they may try to push you and it's nice to know that you can call with something like TPTK and being the favorite.

Last thingy now.
Small bets

Seen a player folding to a small bet on the river/turn since they suspect the other player is trying to milk them? Use this to your advantage and try a bluff with a small bet once in awhile. Also, when you have the nuts, don't bet small with these guys, bet somewhat large (pot sized bet for example) since they are much more likely to call that than one of the milking bet.




These are just something I have done for awhile now. I have grabbed these notes thingys from all over the net and concluded to one and they works out just fine for me. They work great toghether too and I hope some off you guys can have some advantage out of this.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Melchiades]

Do you have time to play poker while writing all this down? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[nath]

Strangely enough, I find I keep more detailed notes at the beginning of tournaments. I'm sure it's because there are far more donk plays and betting patterns (the amount of people who only use the min-bet and pot-bet buttons, except for the once in a blue moon weird bet amount that's trying to sell a monster, never ceases to amaze me) and those tend to stick out-- I want to find a spot to get those players' money.

By the mid-stages, when those players have been cleared out, I'm usually just going by what I've observed and recall. By then I'm less looking for specific hands where I've seen a player demonstrate he doesn't know what he's doing, and I'm more for getting a feel about how a player plays, so specific notes probably don't help as much.

sticky this, for the love of god!

I have used a system much like above poster's, with little code phrases.

What I like is that once I watch a player more, and take notes on them more, phrases like:

"Raised 4xBB pf w/KAs" become phrases like:

"Pf 3-5xBB raising range AT+"

...and STICKY THIS.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
I have used a system much like above poster's, with little code phrases.

What I like is that once I watch a player more, and take notes on them more, phrases like:

"Raised 4xBB pf w/KAs" become phrases like:

"Pf 3-5xBB raising range AT+"

[/ QUOTE ]

With my note taking methods-- chiefly looking out for non-standard plays, especially donkey or LAGgy ones, I'm sure I have a large collection of one-note players. You get some fun ones there. I think I have a note on someone that says "potted 3 times from SB (into 4 people on flop) with A7o on AK889 3-flush board".
(Well, maybe I don't remember the note quite exactly, but that did happen, and I doubled up with the nut flush on that guy. In a $215.)

i use them all the time and you would be amazed how they can help you make decisions.
for example i take notes ppl playing with bad kickers out of position,or this guy plays Ax from any where,this guy likes to play any two suited cards from any where,this guy plays any PP from anywhere.then when im in a pot with them i read the notes and they make my decision.
i also take notes on solid players but not as often.
or if i find some one though to read or play against i also take notes so i can avoid getting involved with them.
they are extremely helpful and surprisingly accurate and reoccurring.

[ QUOTE ]
If someone appears not to understand pot/implied odds or position, that's worth noting. I like knowing who'll call a pot-sized bet for 1/3 of their stack OOP with a flush draw. If I see someone limp-folding a bunch when blinds are big I'll note that. If they vary their raise sizes directly according to their hand strength, that's always nice to know.

I so far haven't gotten all that much benefit from checking my notes on someone, but taking the notes makes me pay more attention to people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very similar. I note everything that's easily exploitable: lack of understanding of pot odds, simple bet size tells, complete inability to drop a hand, fear of large bets. I play $5-$20, and I'm pretty sure that positional play is basically non-existent, so I think recording what hands players play in different position is just gonna give you weird, randomized information. If I think someone's actually a good player, I just tag them with "good" and don't make plays on them that I feel are only profitable against a donkish player.

I play mostly bodog, where there are a lot of regular low-stakes MTTers who absolutely suck, so these are very profitable for me. On stars and party, they can still be nice if that person follows you through the tourny.

[FishInAPhoneBooth]

My notes look something like this:

KJs - L4(7m) - MP2 - raise 3x FI, bet rag flop, chexk q turn, push blank river
QQ - L7(17m) - BB - Flat called 3x with 2 limpers, open pushed 8tj two tone flop.

hand - level (stack) - postion - raise amount - limper status - post flop action.

I actually stopped taking notes recently because I find mself distracted from the game. If I am paying attention, as I should be, I will remember what I need to anyway.

[locutus2002]

I think notes are not valuable except in two cases:

1. You play against the same players frequently, so you are sure of the note. One of the sites I play against most of the same players 3 times a week.

2. Some general observations: capable of bluffing, bluffs with air, limps big pairs EP.

Your particular note isn't that good because its unlikely that that player will limp AQs on the button all the time; it could have been based on the tightness of other players in the pot, or he was trying to provoke one of the blinds, etc.

[whiskeytown]

[ QUOTE ]
Alot of players don't know this about themselves but they raise X amount when they have a strong hand and Y amount when they have a marginal hand or weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Innerestin...I found I tend to bet slightly less in the higher rounds of a tourney then I do in the first rounds - but more along the lines of 3 times the BB vs 4 times the BB - esp. if I feel 4 times would pot commit me.

But if I get AA I love to raise EXACTLY what I raised before - if for some reason I decided to raise from 150 to 500 last time I'll do it the exact same way when I get a monster as I do on my previous hand...but I'm so tight they usually fold anyways..

and then online I usually add one or two bets to any raise I do just because one of the purposes of raising is to get some hands to fold and those donks online never fold - LOL

can you tell I'm slumming for 3800 posts....I'm done...goodnight.

RB

[KneeCo]

Yup, I use notes but not as much as some people.
Things that come up a lot in notes are 'limp with AA/KK in EP', 'gets married to pockets pairs or AK' or 'cont. bets flop, folds to raise'. Stuff like that.

One thing I do with my notes, is put a ? after a note, then remove it if I see the same behavior again and change it to a ! if I see it a third time.

Often you will be wasting your time as you will never use many of the notes you take, but when the notes are relevant they help a lot.

One thing though is to be careful not to get blinded by your notes. Cause people will play differently at the start of a tourny then they will at the FT and might play differently on one day than they will the next.

[locutus2002]

?!, nice technique.

Not only beginning/endgame, but also buyin, stack size, how the cards are running, table tightness, tightness of players left to act, etc.

Notes are helpful to take some main points down.. As mentioned, I really want to see if people will put their tournament on the line on top pair (as do a lot in micro tourneys), limping or raising with big pairs.. what a min-raise means (common at these levels), etc etc..

Sometimes I make notes, sometimes I don't.. right now I am trying not to so that it can be preparation for live tournaments where you just need to observe.. also sometimes when I'm taking a note on something, I miss something else that's going on..

If you can multi-task, it's a great tool and I highly reccommend it.. if your predominantly online player, I highlyy recommend it.. if you want to eventually try some live tourneys and are trying to qualify through satellites to WPT, EPT stuff, i'd just work on the observation part

[HeroInBlack]

I note any specific out-of-line plays until I see the same out-of-line play several times, then I change it to something more general.

Edit: specifically things like "Calls PFR's w/ A7o" or "can't lay down 3rd pair" or "will chase inside straight draw without odds."

A handy-dandy note you should use when applicable: "2+2'er".

[illegit]

I usually make a note whenever they have to showdown a specific hand, and how they played it, or do something notable without showing a hand (like limping for a third of their stack only to fold to a raise). I later modify the note into general comments about things they do looking at the compiled notes for their specific actions

[Gar Pike]

I have a note that I add for all the players that were watching when I did something stupid enough to bust me out. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I usually try to describe tite/agressive characteristic, or if a player does something tricky (open limp KK UTG+1) or stupid (Call allin w A6o bd AQQ ts 15Xbb)

I find I miss a lot of action, though, so I don't get everything in notes

I also just put in a placeholder entry for everyone at the table, at least I know if I've played against them before, and know they might have notes on me. A "." works

Doesn't tell me who might have been taking notes from the rail, though /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Regards

Gar

[Fletch46]

I only started playing on line a couple of months ago (only played live until August) so I'm still pretty new at this, however, I did start keeping notes right away because I read it was a good idea. I'm surprised at the number of times I'm playing against the same people considering the huge numbers of players online. Because this is a new venture, my notes aren't very helpful yet but making them keeps me focused on the game. Also, I've wondered about the notes others are keeping on me so I also track my own play the way someone else might. Hopefully they'll see an improving trend but I know I've a long way to go.

[McMelchior]

I take a minimum of one note on all players I encounter online:

The year and month I played against them first time.

2005 09

When I come up against someone I've played with more than a year ago I know they at least have experience, and if I don't see them making obvious bad plays I assume they have a pretty good idea they know what they're doing.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[ QUOTE ]
I only started playing on line a couple of months ago (only played live until August) so I'm still pretty new at this, however, I did start keeping notes right away because I read it was a good idea. I'm surprised at the number of times I'm playing against the same people considering the huge numbers of players online. Because this is a new venture, my notes aren't very helpful yet but making them keeps me focused on the game. Also, I've wondered about the notes others are keeping on me so I also track my own play the way someone else might. Hopefully they'll see an improving trend but I know I've a long way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true.. especially in MTT, even though there's tons of players, there are also a lot of regulars so you can keep track of them