AviD
09-30-2005, 01:55 AM
That is probably an accurate description for both this post you are about to read, and also how poker has been going for me this year.
Forgive me if this post is a little choppy, I just finished yet another vicious session of getting absolutely smoked.
Nevertheless, some of you may know me, most of you probably don't, but perhaps some of you can extract things from this post to either provide some guidance to me or even help yourselves in one way or another. For those that do know me, you know I've been virtually inactive on here for several months now, and the main reason for it is because quite honestly, I've been getting absolutely decimated at poker and have been trying desperately to figure it out, grind it out, and get past it all.
Before I even get started, I'd like to thank arkady for spending the time (hours, days, weeks on end) reviewing my hands, reviewing my stats, and observing the games I've sat in to try and provide some insight into my game and fix any potential leaks. And if it weren't for him, I question if I'd even be posting this right now. So thanks dude! /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Anyway, while we are on the topic of leaks, I'd like to admit I am no where near a perfect player and always considered myself to be average or a little above average. On the same token, I would say the leaks I do have aren't enough to result in this ridiculously long combination of downswings and break-even play. Some of the posters on here have played with me in the past and can at least attest to my abilities as a player (could be good or bad, I'm being upfront and honest, so hopefully they will as well in their responses).
Anyway, for a little background for those that don't know me, I've been playing for roughly 2.5 to 3 years now, and for the first 6 months...new to Hold Em', and like many others I lost. But in that time, and like all things in my life, I absolutely hate losing. I will do everything in my power to learn a given game, hobby, etc to not just understand how to play or do it, but to master it. I am 100% full steam ahead, highly motivated and highly dedicated fanatic so to speak when it comes to my hobbies. And that is exactly what poker is, with the antillary benefit of being secondary income for me (or at least used to be).
Beyond all that, and after my 6 months of initially "learning" the game and improving my own game (noting that this game is a neverending cycle of learning, adjusting, and improving as a player) , I began to become a winning player over the next year and a half. I grinded out the limits and moved up from 0.5/1 to 1/2 to 2/4 to 3/6 to 5/10 to 10/20 and finally to 15/30 with some 20/40 live play. I had set some reasonable goals for this year, but in a disaster of a year, I have taken a huge leap backwards.
As far as my BR and BR management, I am reasonably strict with what games I sit such that I don't risk losing my BR by sitting a limit outside of what I felt I could both manage financially and as a player.
In respect to my downswings and break-even play, and at the risk of sounding like a complete and utter bad-beat, downswing whiner, I really don't know what the cause/causes is/are.
I've literally torn apart my last 100K hands, and have not come to any reasonable conclusions in respect to my stats. I do play a mix of full and SHed (most 6m now), and my games are very different in each respective game. I am constantly adjusting, spending all my energy focusing on the players, have cut down to 2 tabling to increase my focus, etc...but to no avail.
I can go on and on about my stats, the games, etc...but in a nutshell and at the highest of levels, I am often times putting in a ton of money with the best hand and getting outdrawn constantly. These aren't even logical or "solid" draws or redraws, these are consistent 1-5 outers hitting over and over. We all know how aggressive the SHed games are, and quite frankly, the games I select seem absolutely excellent. I love when players CR me on the turn with gutshot draws, or overcards or semi bluff 3-bet a turned flush draw, etc...but the frequency of them hitting even in HU situations is absolutely mind boggling. Ultimately, I am putting in a ton of bets and losing to 2-5 outers with insane frequency and not getting anything when I have a made hand. It seems like any pot over 5BBs I'm losing, and no I'm not exaggerating.
I've thought about hiring a coach, but after the repeated brutal sessions of the same types of hands crushing the hell out of me, I don't know what a coach can help me with here. I don't feel as if my play is poor in any way, and at the worst I have a few minor leaks (such as not folding to river raises when the only hand that does beat me is a gutshot, which I can't seriously give anyone who cold calls 3 bets on the turn credit for) that may be taking away from my winrate (or increasing my loserate).
Anyway, like I said, I am not a beginner at poker, I've had people watch my play for hours on end, review my hands, and have had umpteen discussions about hands, various/best lines given the players involved, texture of the game, etc...but it honestly doesn't seem to have any significant bearing on the long run (or mini chunk of the real LONG run). I've tried pot manipulation to move people off hands and draws, forcing them into making poor calls they otherwise shouldn't, isolating weaker players, etc...alot of aggressive techniques to put myself in a winning position. On the same token, I am watching players with a very similar style absolutely crush games, the same games (limit) I am in or higher.
I cannot even begin to describe the level of frustration I am experiencing. But it is worth noting, that that frustration does not transcend into my play. For those that have played with me live, they know I do not tilt easily and have a tremendous amount of patience. Much is the same in online poker. I do not tilt easily, and make it a point to stay very level headed and keep an even keel regardless of the results. But in all honesty, my ability to keep that even keel is becoming increasingly difficult.
I have run, what I consider bad, for at least 8-9 months now. When I say bad, I mean consistent downswings, long break-even stretches, with very few "good runs" or upswings. Overall, everything I won in the past and January of this year in 15/30 got blown away.
A few side notes regarding withdrawls and my current profit margin.
I have taken a relative signficant amount of money out of my BR over the course of my play (since I started), but have not taken much of anything out in the last 4-5 months. I did have to pay some bills off, and some CCs, and put a down payment on a vehicle, and paid for LASIK surgery, so that all came from poker. So overall, and per my first year and a half to 2 years of winning player, I am still technically in the GREEN but not nearly where I should be.
I would further say for the 2005 year to date, I am probably in the red. Not tremendously so, probably -5K. Considering I dropped into 5/10 for my last 4-5 months or so, and with the mix of limits, I would say I am on a solid 100K hand downswing (with some long break-even stretches). In the last 8-9 months, given the relative limits, I would say I have lost at least 800-1000BBs.
At this point, I am at the end of my rope. Tonight I dropped another 90BBs and last night 70BBs. My BR is getting to the point where it is crippled and in all honesty, I am simply not willing to drop another limit. I am at a point where I am comfortable just busting out, simply because I am frustrated and it will give me an excuse to stop spending countless hours playing online poker. I do love the game, I love poker, but this simply isn't fun running this bad for this long. I look back to all the hours I've put into poker, all the time when I've been away from poker trying to figure all of this out...and it seems like such wasted time as I have absolutely nothing to show for it now.
So what is the point of this whole post (yeah about time I got to that)...well, I honestly don't know. I'm sure some can relate, I'm sure some will immediately assume I just suck and that is why I am losing (hey I might not disagree), and some will be equally baffled. I am at a dead end here, and honestly don't know what my next step is other than quitting and possibly playing live for entertainment. I've never quit at anything in my life, and I've never struggled at anything like this in my life. Quitting never was an option, but when I consider all the time invested and all the frustration that has resulted and its relative impact on my real life, I have to start considering whether or not this "hobby" is really worth it all (especially when I get literally nothing positive in return).
So I'm throwing this all out there, along with my pride and my ego, hoping someone, anyone can provide some guidance and help me get beyond this all. I've met alot of great people since I've started playing poker, and I really do not want to give this up or cave into failure. But right now, for the first time in my life, I feel like I've been defeated, like I've failed. That is an extremely hard pill for me to swallow, and even harder for me to accept. I've tried to deny it and fight through it for the last few months and it just seems to never end, and its only getting worse.
In the long run, it isn't life altering or even supremely important. It all just comes down to my desire to be successful at those things I spend the time trying to master, and poker is something that has turned a complete 180 on me. Something that seemed so easy before has now become so utterly impossible. I've been everywhere from grinding full games with a mega tight aggressive style to playing as near to ideal SHed poker as I can manage based on what I've learned, observed, and applied over the last couple years and has proved successful before...and its the same consistent end result of me breaking even or losing.
I'm not sure what any of you can offer, or what a coach can offer. I'm sure there are facets of my game that could use some improvement, I'm sure that is the case in many people's games. But in all honesty, I really don't think it is those minor leaks that are amounting to all of this.
I have no logical or analytical explanation for it, and I don't expect anyone else to really. I figured I'd just vent this off, see what others can recommend and see if I can find something to apply. My motivation and confidence at this point are completely shot, but my dedication and refusal to submit keeps me going, and has kept me going for months now.
My head has been everywhere from wondering if I'm marked by Party and Affiliates, to wondering if there is some coincidence between rakeback and my losing streak considering I suddenly started losing the day I signed up for rakeback, to me being the unluckiest son of a bitch on the planet. Somehow, all of those seem highly unlikely and there is plenty of counter evidence to at least the second one! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
So, can anyone offer any insight? Any suggestions? Any thoughts?
I'm sure there will be some questions, and if you want to PM me, please feel free. I've been spending my weeks at work thinking more about poker than working, so I can probably address most replies tomorrow.
Thanks ahead of time for everyone that actually reads this all. I know its been all over the place, and I'm sure I've been ridiculously repetitive so bear with me. Thanks all.
Forgive me if this post is a little choppy, I just finished yet another vicious session of getting absolutely smoked.
Nevertheless, some of you may know me, most of you probably don't, but perhaps some of you can extract things from this post to either provide some guidance to me or even help yourselves in one way or another. For those that do know me, you know I've been virtually inactive on here for several months now, and the main reason for it is because quite honestly, I've been getting absolutely decimated at poker and have been trying desperately to figure it out, grind it out, and get past it all.
Before I even get started, I'd like to thank arkady for spending the time (hours, days, weeks on end) reviewing my hands, reviewing my stats, and observing the games I've sat in to try and provide some insight into my game and fix any potential leaks. And if it weren't for him, I question if I'd even be posting this right now. So thanks dude! /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Anyway, while we are on the topic of leaks, I'd like to admit I am no where near a perfect player and always considered myself to be average or a little above average. On the same token, I would say the leaks I do have aren't enough to result in this ridiculously long combination of downswings and break-even play. Some of the posters on here have played with me in the past and can at least attest to my abilities as a player (could be good or bad, I'm being upfront and honest, so hopefully they will as well in their responses).
Anyway, for a little background for those that don't know me, I've been playing for roughly 2.5 to 3 years now, and for the first 6 months...new to Hold Em', and like many others I lost. But in that time, and like all things in my life, I absolutely hate losing. I will do everything in my power to learn a given game, hobby, etc to not just understand how to play or do it, but to master it. I am 100% full steam ahead, highly motivated and highly dedicated fanatic so to speak when it comes to my hobbies. And that is exactly what poker is, with the antillary benefit of being secondary income for me (or at least used to be).
Beyond all that, and after my 6 months of initially "learning" the game and improving my own game (noting that this game is a neverending cycle of learning, adjusting, and improving as a player) , I began to become a winning player over the next year and a half. I grinded out the limits and moved up from 0.5/1 to 1/2 to 2/4 to 3/6 to 5/10 to 10/20 and finally to 15/30 with some 20/40 live play. I had set some reasonable goals for this year, but in a disaster of a year, I have taken a huge leap backwards.
As far as my BR and BR management, I am reasonably strict with what games I sit such that I don't risk losing my BR by sitting a limit outside of what I felt I could both manage financially and as a player.
In respect to my downswings and break-even play, and at the risk of sounding like a complete and utter bad-beat, downswing whiner, I really don't know what the cause/causes is/are.
I've literally torn apart my last 100K hands, and have not come to any reasonable conclusions in respect to my stats. I do play a mix of full and SHed (most 6m now), and my games are very different in each respective game. I am constantly adjusting, spending all my energy focusing on the players, have cut down to 2 tabling to increase my focus, etc...but to no avail.
I can go on and on about my stats, the games, etc...but in a nutshell and at the highest of levels, I am often times putting in a ton of money with the best hand and getting outdrawn constantly. These aren't even logical or "solid" draws or redraws, these are consistent 1-5 outers hitting over and over. We all know how aggressive the SHed games are, and quite frankly, the games I select seem absolutely excellent. I love when players CR me on the turn with gutshot draws, or overcards or semi bluff 3-bet a turned flush draw, etc...but the frequency of them hitting even in HU situations is absolutely mind boggling. Ultimately, I am putting in a ton of bets and losing to 2-5 outers with insane frequency and not getting anything when I have a made hand. It seems like any pot over 5BBs I'm losing, and no I'm not exaggerating.
I've thought about hiring a coach, but after the repeated brutal sessions of the same types of hands crushing the hell out of me, I don't know what a coach can help me with here. I don't feel as if my play is poor in any way, and at the worst I have a few minor leaks (such as not folding to river raises when the only hand that does beat me is a gutshot, which I can't seriously give anyone who cold calls 3 bets on the turn credit for) that may be taking away from my winrate (or increasing my loserate).
Anyway, like I said, I am not a beginner at poker, I've had people watch my play for hours on end, review my hands, and have had umpteen discussions about hands, various/best lines given the players involved, texture of the game, etc...but it honestly doesn't seem to have any significant bearing on the long run (or mini chunk of the real LONG run). I've tried pot manipulation to move people off hands and draws, forcing them into making poor calls they otherwise shouldn't, isolating weaker players, etc...alot of aggressive techniques to put myself in a winning position. On the same token, I am watching players with a very similar style absolutely crush games, the same games (limit) I am in or higher.
I cannot even begin to describe the level of frustration I am experiencing. But it is worth noting, that that frustration does not transcend into my play. For those that have played with me live, they know I do not tilt easily and have a tremendous amount of patience. Much is the same in online poker. I do not tilt easily, and make it a point to stay very level headed and keep an even keel regardless of the results. But in all honesty, my ability to keep that even keel is becoming increasingly difficult.
I have run, what I consider bad, for at least 8-9 months now. When I say bad, I mean consistent downswings, long break-even stretches, with very few "good runs" or upswings. Overall, everything I won in the past and January of this year in 15/30 got blown away.
A few side notes regarding withdrawls and my current profit margin.
I have taken a relative signficant amount of money out of my BR over the course of my play (since I started), but have not taken much of anything out in the last 4-5 months. I did have to pay some bills off, and some CCs, and put a down payment on a vehicle, and paid for LASIK surgery, so that all came from poker. So overall, and per my first year and a half to 2 years of winning player, I am still technically in the GREEN but not nearly where I should be.
I would further say for the 2005 year to date, I am probably in the red. Not tremendously so, probably -5K. Considering I dropped into 5/10 for my last 4-5 months or so, and with the mix of limits, I would say I am on a solid 100K hand downswing (with some long break-even stretches). In the last 8-9 months, given the relative limits, I would say I have lost at least 800-1000BBs.
At this point, I am at the end of my rope. Tonight I dropped another 90BBs and last night 70BBs. My BR is getting to the point where it is crippled and in all honesty, I am simply not willing to drop another limit. I am at a point where I am comfortable just busting out, simply because I am frustrated and it will give me an excuse to stop spending countless hours playing online poker. I do love the game, I love poker, but this simply isn't fun running this bad for this long. I look back to all the hours I've put into poker, all the time when I've been away from poker trying to figure all of this out...and it seems like such wasted time as I have absolutely nothing to show for it now.
So what is the point of this whole post (yeah about time I got to that)...well, I honestly don't know. I'm sure some can relate, I'm sure some will immediately assume I just suck and that is why I am losing (hey I might not disagree), and some will be equally baffled. I am at a dead end here, and honestly don't know what my next step is other than quitting and possibly playing live for entertainment. I've never quit at anything in my life, and I've never struggled at anything like this in my life. Quitting never was an option, but when I consider all the time invested and all the frustration that has resulted and its relative impact on my real life, I have to start considering whether or not this "hobby" is really worth it all (especially when I get literally nothing positive in return).
So I'm throwing this all out there, along with my pride and my ego, hoping someone, anyone can provide some guidance and help me get beyond this all. I've met alot of great people since I've started playing poker, and I really do not want to give this up or cave into failure. But right now, for the first time in my life, I feel like I've been defeated, like I've failed. That is an extremely hard pill for me to swallow, and even harder for me to accept. I've tried to deny it and fight through it for the last few months and it just seems to never end, and its only getting worse.
In the long run, it isn't life altering or even supremely important. It all just comes down to my desire to be successful at those things I spend the time trying to master, and poker is something that has turned a complete 180 on me. Something that seemed so easy before has now become so utterly impossible. I've been everywhere from grinding full games with a mega tight aggressive style to playing as near to ideal SHed poker as I can manage based on what I've learned, observed, and applied over the last couple years and has proved successful before...and its the same consistent end result of me breaking even or losing.
I'm not sure what any of you can offer, or what a coach can offer. I'm sure there are facets of my game that could use some improvement, I'm sure that is the case in many people's games. But in all honesty, I really don't think it is those minor leaks that are amounting to all of this.
I have no logical or analytical explanation for it, and I don't expect anyone else to really. I figured I'd just vent this off, see what others can recommend and see if I can find something to apply. My motivation and confidence at this point are completely shot, but my dedication and refusal to submit keeps me going, and has kept me going for months now.
My head has been everywhere from wondering if I'm marked by Party and Affiliates, to wondering if there is some coincidence between rakeback and my losing streak considering I suddenly started losing the day I signed up for rakeback, to me being the unluckiest son of a bitch on the planet. Somehow, all of those seem highly unlikely and there is plenty of counter evidence to at least the second one! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
So, can anyone offer any insight? Any suggestions? Any thoughts?
I'm sure there will be some questions, and if you want to PM me, please feel free. I've been spending my weeks at work thinking more about poker than working, so I can probably address most replies tomorrow.
Thanks ahead of time for everyone that actually reads this all. I know its been all over the place, and I'm sure I've been ridiculously repetitive so bear with me. Thanks all.