$55 odd high blind hand

[rybones]

I think this is an interesting hand. First the set up and then I will tell you what I had and the outcome.

Seat 2: villian/button (3945)
Seat 4: hero/bb (no sb this hand)(1295)
Seat 5: utg (1245)
Seat 7: mp1(1255)
Seat 8: mp2 (1845)
Seat 9: co (415)
hero posts big blind (150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dhd7mQ [ ?, ? ]
utg limps <font color="red"> [?,?] </font>
mp1 folds.
mp2 limps <font color="red"> [?,?] </font>
co folds
villian raises (700) to 700 <font color="red"> [?,?] </font>

What do the three players have and why?

Reads: The notes I have for the Villian read: "min raiser. high blind limper with cheese." I had no notes on the utg limper in the hand but he had limped a few other high blind hands. The mp2's limp looked like threw me as I would have folded or raised in his spot, but he had played fairly solid.

Any thoughts appreciated,

Ryan

[rybones]

bump

[kurto]

Is this for real?

UTG has KK or AA.
MP2 has KQ or AT or TT-99
Button: figures either UTG has a monster or a weak hand he doesn't want to lost much to and figures the same for MP2. So he's going to put in a raise and find out. If someone comes over the top of him, he'll probably be pot committed to call but can get away if he has garbage.

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this for real?

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you mean?

Ryan

[SammyKid11]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this for real?

[/ QUOTE ]

how do you mean?

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

He means with the amount of information you've given us, any answers we give to your question would be, at best, a wild guess. These sound like very unpredictable players, you haven't even given us YOUR hole cards, nor do we have any action on the flop with which to make judgments about what these players have. All we have is two limps and the big stack raising a little less than 5xBB. What do they have? They have two cards in front of them. I'm 100% sure.

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]

[Quote]

Is this for real?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you mean?

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
He means with the amount of information you've given us, any answers we give to your question would be, at best, a wild guess. These sound like very unpredictable players, you haven't even given us YOUR hole cards, nor do we have any action on the flop with which to make judgments about what these players have. All we have is two limps and the big stack raising a little less than 5xBB. What do they have? They have two cards in front of them. I'm 100% sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I gave you all the information I had at the time. Additionally, why does it matter what I had? The hand (as the heading states) is odd no matter what I had. Moreover, I think this is a great puzzle. figure it out if you can!

Ryan

[MegaBet]

Ummm, two bananas and a cucumber? But that's just a wild stab in the dark. I'm not 100% sure.

[FlyingSumo]

All three players is in the "any two"-range, being attracted by the chips in the pot.

And now please tell how you could know that utg had JJ, limper 88, and bigstack 27o, and u managed to isolate the 27o with your 39o isolationreraise.

[SammyKid11]

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Actually, I gave you all the information I had at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, at the time you had your own hole cards and you didn't give us that information.

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, why does it matter what I had?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because, since you have us stabbing the in the f'ing dark, it'd be good to eliminate your two hole cards from our wild guesses.


[ QUOTE ]
The hand (as the heading states) is odd no matter what I had. Moreover, I think this is a great puzzle. figure it out if you can!

[/ QUOTE ]

You have given us NO reason to believe this hand is odd. With the information we have, this hand looks thoroughly standard in every way. Lots of people limp early in high-blind situations in the 55's. Lots of big stacks raise ~5xBB on the button. There is no reason for us to a) think this hand is odd, or b) have any educated guesses on what any of the participants have. If you want people to practice their clairvoyance, then this is a reasonable way to test their skills. If you want people to provide poker expertise to help educate yourself on how to be a better player, you're simply going to have to post hands with more real-world relevance to "putting people on a hand." Hellmuth, Chan, Lederer, and Ivey would and could all see your original post and still say, "my guess is that the people involved in these hands had two cards...and those two cards were different cards from whichever two you had in front of you." Sure, we could take wild guesses like, UTG had a low pocket pair, caller had AJo, and raiser had AA. Or it could be that UTG was limping aces, caller had K6s and was hoping for a flush draw, and raiser had TT. Who KNOWS? With this complete lack of information on the TOTAL action of the hand, your question is akin to saying, "I decided today that I wanted tuna instead of turkey...guess why?"

IJJUT.

[lorinda]

UTG should have JQs because that's the type of hands that loose UTGs play. He actually has QQ, see later

MP2 is a solid player, and has the same notes (although maybe a better taste in puzzles?) that you do. He knows that the button is going to min raise here, so he limps with his AA.

Villain, stupidly, has found a real hand. No min raise from him, his JJ is just too good for this situation, he wants the pot and he wants it now. He only min raises when bluffing.

Hero, finding this incredible, is looking at a pair of kings. He is licking his lips at this point and decides to push.
This is where we discover that UTG actually has QQ. He should have QJ, but it's a much better post if he has QQ, so he must have had QQ.

Everyone calls heros push, and the Jacks win, knocking everyone out of the tourney.

CO has a good day.

Lori (baffled, but I tried /images/graemlins/crazy.gif )

The big fat problem is that it's not a puzzle that can be solved, and it actually shows that you can't from the notes you have and don't have. There's not enough information, not even close. If there's some info on what hands they push with then I can make an educated guess. In fact, the biggest clues in your post are not too much about that hand.

You said that UTG limped a few before. So what the hell can we put him on? Villain's push could be from a wide range of things, so I can only guess by eliminating the chances of what hands he could be holding by guessing what the other hands are (I.E. if someone has QQ, there's a very good chance that he does not have QQ).

You have QQ or AK. You say that mp2's limp threw you off a bit, which means you can't have aces and you probably don't have kings. If the hand interested you after 2 limps and an all-in, then you have a pretty big hand but not supremely confident about it. Unless you were trying to throw me off by the way you described it, in which case I don't have a chance in hell to guess any of the hands with that kind of misleading info.

Because this is an interesting hand, you called. Because you know what everyone had, everyone called. So UTG has aces, kings, or AK. mp2 probably called too, so he has aces, kings, or AK. Because it's so interesting, you probably won this hand when you had the best of it and wanted to see if you can read this kind of situation.

So, everyone had AK and you had queens. That's my guess.

[rybones]

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You have given us NO reason to believe this hand is odd. With the information we have, this hand looks thoroughly standard in every way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure how many $55s you have played, but in the 1000 or so I have played I have very rarely seen someone raise 7xbb over 2 limpers. I have seen lots of pushes, but few raises like that. Moreover, I thought raise was odd/interesting as it came from a constant min-raiser and it came over 2 limpers. Just wonder what that could mean?

Beyond that, I hope you have a good day and I am sorry I upset your poker senses so much.

Ryan

p.s. I had Q,Q. would you have folded, called or pushed. Calling seems stupid but then you think a raise of 7xbb is standard with blinds this high?

[rybones]

Wow is it interesting how angry everyone got that I thought this was interesting/thought provoking. I just happened to think the raise to t700 from villian was odd as I normally see a push when someone goes after the limpers.

I posted the hand the way I did because people are often fond of flaming this typed of hand because they assume you called/pushed and lost and thus it was a bad beat. Or, they flame you because you should have clearly seen that someone had A,A and you should have folded. Or, they flame you because you clearly had the best hand and should have pushed. Rather than getting that started I thought I should just see if anyone had seen a hand like this before.

I myself couldnt put utg on anything much as he had limped before. the limp from mp seemed week as you might limp with big pairs if you were opening, but you would have to raise with big pairs in that spot. Then there is the odd raise by the min-raiser/villian. for me it just didn't add up.

That said, I had Q,Q and folded. Utg and mp also folded and I walked away wondering if I did the right thing.

[rybones]

Thanks!!!! it's not right, but at least you think me an idiot for posting the puzzle. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ryan

Well at least I got the QQ part right then...dude, this hand is not interesting in any way, shape or form.