View Full Version : yeah I cold-called pf. What of it?
Guruman
09-29-2005, 09:52 PM
prima network 1/2 full ring
table avg is 20/12
villain is 28/7.63 after 118 hands
just about no one has open-limped lately because pf raises have been buying more than half of the pots. I've stolen from the button and co successfully about 70% of the time due to the mega rocks on my left.
-preflop-
Hero is co with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
2 folds, mp1 raises, 2 folds, hero calls, bb calls
I've got position, a cc worthy suited hand, and no desire to risk a pf cap.
-flop-
5/images/graemlins/spade.gif4/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif
bb checks, mp1 bets, hero raises...
scotty34
09-29-2005, 10:05 PM
I don't like it. If there were a few other cold-callers before you then great, but in this case you are getting 1.75:1 with an easily dominated hand, and almost certainly at least a hand that is behind. Position and suit does not make up for this.
Eeegah
09-29-2005, 10:10 PM
Looks pretty results oriented to me.
gharp
09-29-2005, 10:11 PM
I'm not happy about it. If the two guys in front of you cold-called it'd be different, but you really don't want to be in a shorthanded pot with QJ against a guy who's only raising ~7-8% of his hands.
Guruman
09-29-2005, 10:11 PM
my read on villain was that he had two cards and wanted the blind. Against an actual human being this would be much more marginal IMO, but keep in mind that his range includes hands that I dominate as well here.
Paxosmotic
09-29-2005, 10:15 PM
His PFR doesn't seem to indicate a player that loosens up as it's folded to him, like a 21/12 would. I'm torn on the play.
Guruman
09-29-2005, 10:17 PM
torn on the call or the raise?
Paxosmotic
09-29-2005, 10:28 PM
The call, the raise is standard. If villain is particularly weak-tight, we call this a 'float'.
Guruman
09-29-2005, 10:32 PM
I thougt you had to have no hand to float. This was a pure value raise for me.
Felipe
09-29-2005, 10:42 PM
table avg is 20/12
yuck.
gharp
09-29-2005, 10:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
my read on villain was that he had two cards and wanted the blind. Against an actual human being this would be much more marginal IMO, but keep in mind that his range includes hands that I dominate as well here.
[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't sound like a 28/7.6 raising from MP1 to me. I don't think there's very much in the 7.6 that you dominate, especially when he's opening from MP1.
numeri
09-29-2005, 10:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my read on villain was that he had two cards and wanted the blind. Against an actual human being this would be much more marginal IMO, but keep in mind that his range includes hands that I dominate as well here.
[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't sound like a 28/7.6 raising from MP1 to me. I don't think there's very much in the 7.6 that you dominate, especially when he's opening from MP1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. OP is focusing too much on the 28 and not enough on the 7.6. 7.6 PFR is a smaller range than most of us have, and this in in MP1. Exactly which hands raised from MP1 by someone with a PFR of 7.6 do we dominate?
Guruman
09-29-2005, 11:01 PM
I saw him show down JTo, KTo, and 22 from open raises.
If that helps any.
numeri
09-29-2005, 11:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I saw him show down JTo, KTo, and 22 from open raises.
If that helps any.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... do you remember from what position? Those sound like steal raises from CO or Button, not from MP1.
Guruman
09-29-2005, 11:10 PM
he and I were stealing the blinds of twin peaks next to me. Some of that could have come from later positions, but make no mistake - he had a target.
I really hate preflop. 1) find a new table 2) people that are PFR 7.5 are typically not raising light from MP1. 3) Even if he is raising light, you have QJ
Paxosmotic
09-29-2005, 11:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I thougt you had to have no hand to float. This was a pure value raise for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. I just consider a float to be cold call -> flop call -> turn raise against a weak-tight.
Greg J
09-29-2005, 11:39 PM
The only I cold call this preflop is if I already have two cold callers and think at least one blind is coming along for the ride.
I don't know why you'd continue to play a table like that at this limit - there's only a thousand better tables out there. But anyway, I agree with you and disagree with all other posters and say that I don't think the cold call is terrible. What is terrible is that this beautiful, most enjoyable of hands to play, which has great potential cannot be played profitably at such a shitty table.
Guruman
09-30-2005, 12:14 AM
this table wasnt so bad as it looked.
two mega rocks to my right made for easy late position pickins, and a maniac and a calling station on my left tended to pay when I picked up a hand.
[ QUOTE ]
I've got a cc worthy suited hand
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. 40/12 table you might have a case. A quick mash of the stats says you need at least 2 loose callers here and even then it's tight. 7.63 from MP1 says you're most likely behind.
@bsolute_luck
09-30-2005, 07:51 AM
Guru: if you want to play this hand and have a read he is a light blind stealer: 3-bet PRF rather than cc. you have position and having control of the hand is a big plus.
[ QUOTE ]
two mega rocks to my right made for easy late position pickins, and a maniac and a calling station on my left tended to pay when I picked up a hand.
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't this bass-ackwards from the positions you would want?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
two mega rocks to my right made for easy late position pickins, and a maniac and a calling station on my left tended to pay when I picked up a hand.
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't this bass-ackwards from the positions you would want?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not if you sit at the top side of the table.
livinitup0
10-01-2005, 12:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
prima network 1/2 full ring
table avg is 20/12
villain is 28/7.63 after 118 hands
just about no one has open-limped lately because pf raises have been buying more than half of the pots. I've stolen from the button and co successfully about 70% of the time due to the mega rocks on my left.
-preflop-
Hero is co with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
2 folds, mp1 raises, 2 folds, hero calls, bb calls
I've got position, a cc worthy suited hand, and no desire to risk a pf cap.
-flop-
5/images/graemlins/spade.gif4/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif
bb checks, mp1 bets, hero raises...
[/ QUOTE ]
Seems like I would have looked for another table. with these stats.
No ....just because you spiked your J doesnt mean this is Ok. You cold called with QJ...regardless of suits. You will lose money in the long run. I actually think at these limits you are ENCOURAGING the button to call whcich screws up your whole position plan. Be happy your J hit this time and dont do it again.
livinitup0
10-01-2005, 12:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Guru: if you want to play this hand and have a read he is a light blind stealer: 3-bet PRF rather than cc. you have position and having control of the hand is a big plus.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this...
scotty34
10-02-2005, 11:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
my read on villain was that he had two cards and wanted the blind. Against an actual human being this would be much more marginal IMO, but keep in mind that his range includes hands that I dominate as well here.
[/ QUOTE ]
As others have pointed out, a 7.6 PFR does not contain many hands that you dominate. Even if there are some, there are far more that are dominating you. However, even with that aside, if you actually believe you have a good chance of dominating him, you want to be 3-betting not coldcalling.
DCWildcat
10-03-2005, 01:04 AM
3-betting > cold-calling. Folding > 3-betting. Dominated too often here, and the pot in no way justifies it.
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