Stacking Chips (reflect your style?)

[elyk]

In Mike Caro’s Book of Tells he states that a player who stacks his chips neatly will play a more conservative game and vice versa. I have found keeping my stack tidily arranged has helped my game by ensuring I don’t play “sloppy” and is paramount after a big win or bad beat. (ie. unnecessarily “throwing around” chips after a big win)

I am interested if others think of this when they play? Also, does anyone prefer a particular stacking method to another? Has this helped/hindered your game?

[onegymrat]

Hi elyk,

Although I have yet to read Caro's book, from my experience, he is pretty accurate on this type of read on an opponent.

Your question is oddly thought provoking. Can't say I have ever thought about how I play based on how I stack my chips. I really don't think that it will have any long-term effects on how your play. Either you know how to play tight or you don't.

What Caro is probably speaking about is your style of chip stacking is reflective on the type of personality that you have. If you are a gambler, a sort of recklessly wild person, you will not care about the neatness of your stack. For me, the thought of a messy stack pains me inside, it's just how I am. Because of my type of personality, where I normally display discipline and patience, I am able to play a tight, conservative game. I advise not thinking about HOW you stack your chips so much or how it affects your game.

I think that when I'm down, I try to make it look like I have more chips and vice versa. I think it keeps your opponents from noticing you because of your extremely large/small stack.

I tend to put them in nice stacks of 10 (or 20 if there are more chips involved), put them in "squares" (think 2x2x10). After I fill one of those up, I put one stack on top. Then I proceed to make a fifth and sixth stack next to the square, followed by a stack on top of those. It works for conserving space and stability, but that's just me. I'm intrested to see what other people think.

i know this is flawed logic and someone will point it out, but, i like to separate my buy in with my profit. it just lets me know how well i'm doing. i try not to let it affect my play though. i also don't think at the 3/6 limits anyone is going to pick up a tell implying that i'll be loose with profit and tight with buy in money. i think caro might have mentioned that. hopefully with more B&M experience i'll be able to construct large pyraminds...

[jzpiano14]

I'm seen some ppl by in at a 1-3 spread with 1k all with $1 chips, he built a pyramid....always wanted to do this.

[Xhad]

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hopefully with more B&M experience i'll be able to construct large pyraminds...

[/ QUOTE ]

You should purchase Mason Malmuth's Gambling Theory and Other Topics, it features an extensive section on pyramid-building techniques. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I put the high value chips under my small value chips so it looks like I have less than I do. That way, all the people at the home games I play don't catch on to how much better I am than they are. They usually do anyway though, but continue to lose money to me regardless.

[runout_mick]

This particular tell was VERY accurate of me, so now I try to go out of my way to ensure my chips are semi-haphazardly stacked. Uneven stack heights, non-linear rows, and I now NEVER line up the bars on the edges of the chips anymore.

Every now and again I still catch myself "straightening up" my stack without even thinking about it, even though I have found that this is the most reliable broad spectrum tell that there is.

[BarronVangorToth]

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I now NEVER line up the bars on the edges of the chips anymore.

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Doing that is a waste of time; making sure they are all facing the same way is of much more importance.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[vexvelour]

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i know this is flawed logic and someone will point it out, but, i like to separate my buy in with my profit. it just lets me know how well i'm doing. i try not to let it affect my play though.

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This won't affect YOUR play so much as it will tell others what you're willing to pay for. It's also a tell, because as soon as you dip into your profit stack, more likely than not you've got a better hand. I've found this to be a bad habit. There are more deceptive ways to stack chips so that YOU know how much you have, but for others it isn't as easy to guess what is going on with your stacks.

[ QUOTE ]
i know this is flawed logic and someone will point it out, but, i like to separate my buy in with my profit. it just lets me know how well i'm doing. i try not to let it affect my play though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Furthermore, this is a reflection with a results-oriented definition of winning. It doesn't matter what you started with. It only matters how much you have now in relation to the pot and other players (in an NL game). In a fixed limit game, it doesn't matter at all, since your stack is basically equal to your entire BR unless you are so low in chips that you are all-in.

"Profit" is a fictional concept during the game, since it is only a snapshot of your long term results.

It's not the seperate stacks that affect your play; it's knowing how much you bought in for that does.

[newhizzle]

i make a pyramid the way mason says to do it in GTAOT, stacks are always exactly 20 chips, no more, no less, dont stack stacks on top of stacks, start with 3 in a little pyramid, then just keep adding on to the side until you get a bigger pyramid

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i make a pyramid the way mason says to do it in GTAOT, stacks are always exactly 20 chips, no more, no less, dont stack stacks on top of stacks, start with 3 in a little pyramid, then just keep adding on to the side until you get a bigger pyramid

[/ QUOTE ]

At one point, you are going to have to build up instead of out, because there's limited real-estate at ground level. This is why skyscrapers are so popular in big cities.

So, at what point do you add stories to your structure? I would think that at 15 stacks, you would have to build up, or break the pyramid pattern. Possibly 10.

[newhizzle]

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i make a pyramid the way mason says to do it in GTAOT, stacks are always exactly 20 chips, no more, no less, dont stack stacks on top of stacks, start with 3 in a little pyramid, then just keep adding on to the side until you get a bigger pyramid

[/ QUOTE ]

At one point, you are going to have to build up instead of out, because there's limited real-estate at ground level. This is why skyscrapers are so popular in big cities.

So, at what point do you add stories to your structure? I would think that at 15 stacks, you would have to build up, or break the pyramid pattern. Possibly 10.

[/ QUOTE ]

not until i cant tell which chips are mine and which are my opponents

edit: then ill color up

[bolgenmod]

I'm sure that obsessively neat stacking might be a tell, but in my (admittedly limited experience), most people are somewhat neat with their stacks.

The place where I've found this tell to be most true is for those people who don't stack their chips neatly. Both at the casino and at the home game, the absolute biggest maniacs I've ever seen made heaps, not stacks of chips. The guy at the casino was amazing: raised every hand, played every hand, lost most of them. When he had chips, they were just a pile mostly in front of him, different denoms mixed together.

In short, like many tells, I think this is most reliable at the extremes, not necessarily for the vast middle who arrange their chips fairly but not obsessively neatly.

I like keeping mine semi organized, in multiple mid-sized stacks. That way I cant tell how much money I have and neither can my opponents. It helps me avoid my tendancy to check my bankroll all the time and watch it grow/shrink.

[SheetWise]

I never arrange. I'll take two stacks of arranged chips from the pot, and shuffle them into a barber pole. I like stacks of mixed color between 15-30 high, arranged randomly. It always amazes me how much time opponents will spend looking to see how much I have. As long as I know, who cares?

[bryan4967]

That's wierd. I stack my chips so I can do the exact opposite. I always like to know how much money I have in front of me at all times. In stacks of twenty.

[yvesaint]

i make mine spell out stuff on the felt like "FISH" or "BLUFF" or even sometimes "DRUNK"

or a smiley face

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I put the high value chips under my small value chips so it looks like I have less than I do. That way, all the people at the home games I play don't catch on to how much better I am than they are. They usually do anyway though, but continue to lose money to me regardless.

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A tip on this, when at home games, the black chips are virtually unnoticeable under a stack of the (usually, at least with my friends), lower denomination dark blue chips.

[smoore]

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I put the high value chips under my small value chips so it looks like I have less than I do. That way, all the people at the home games I play don't catch on to how much better I am than they are. They usually do anyway though, but continue to lose money to me regardless.

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A tip on this, when at home games, the black chips are virtually unnoticeable under a stack of the (usually, at least with my friends), lower denomination dark blue chips.

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Good angle guys. That must really give you an advantage. I'm amazed you both discovered this at the same time. No one else has ever thought of this before.