77 in MP1 vs one EP limper

[GoodOL]

How do you guys play 77 in middle position (MP1) when there is one EP limper. I raise if I know the limper to be a weak player and those behind me are tight. If the table is loose, I tend to limp. But what do you do when you don't have a beat on the table yet? Do you ever fold in this spot?

[InfernoLL]

Folding is ridiculous if you don't have a feel for the table yet. I think it's ridiculous in any situation. Raise if your playing style demands you take control, limp if you don't mind going to the flop without announcing strength. This really depends on how you prefer to play, as limping or raising probably have a similar chance of being good or bad at an unknown table, and may not be much different in many cases anyway.

[GoodOL]

Does anyone ever fold here?

[amulet]

if i feel i can not isolate the early limper (based on the game), and i do not think 5 of us will see the flop, i fold 77 here. i think most mid pairs are over played and should be folded more often then they are. if i think i can isolate i raise, or if i think it many will limp if i also limp, then i limp. seems standard, except here.

[NMcNasty]

This is an auto raise for me, I would never think about doing anything else. You have the tenth best hand in holdem and the limper would have raised already if he had a higher pair. I'm probably raising 55 as well. With the smaller pairs its best to just call although there's still some good arguments for both folding and raising.

[amulet]

great way to give away $ at low and middle limits.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an auto raise for me, I would never think about doing anything else. You have the tenth best hand in holdem and the limper would have raised already if he had a higher pair. I'm probably raising 55 as well. With the smaller pairs its best to just call although there's still some good arguments for both folding and raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless everyone is 00ber tight behind you, limping is the correct play.

[ QUOTE ]
I would never think about doing anything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a big problem.

[pokerkai]

isolating out of mp1? its hard to believe, even with some imagination, that youll be successful very often.

[NMcNasty]

Limping in that spot is an extremely weak way to play the tenth best hand in holdem. You're basically conceding your ability to win the pot without a set. The original limper could have 22, 56s, JT, or A3o who knows. There's really no reason to fear a higher pair and surely you would raise with 77 from MP if it was folded to you.

[amulet]

bk is correct and his response was funny too.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Limping in that spot is an extremely weak way to play the tenth best hand in holdem. You're basically conceding your ability to win the pot without a set. The original limper could have 22, 56s, JT, or A3o who knows. There's really no reason to fear a higher pair and surely you would raise with 77 from MP if it was folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i guess since 77 is the 10th best starting hand in holdem, it must remain that way even at the river...despite the fact that there is a 92% probability at least one overcard falls on the flop and a 98% probability there is at least one by the river. further, there is a 79% probability that a card over 9 will fall on the flop. those cards are ones that early limpers have.

i limp in this spot

Barron

[NMcNasty]

He's incorrect, not funny, and folding 77 there is an utterly horrible play. Quit sucking balls and learn the game.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Limping in that spot is an extremely weak way to play the tenth best hand in holdem. You're basically conceding your ability to win the pot without a set. The original limper could have 22, 56s, JT, or A3o who knows. There's really no reason to fear a higher pair and surely you would raise with 77 from MP if it was folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop it with your ridiculous advice and come back when you've learned poker from somewhere other than Phil Hellmuth's book.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
come back when you've learned poker from somewhere other than Phil Hellmuth's book.

[/ QUOTE ]haha, too funny.

[PokerCad]

I must be learninghttp://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/images/icons/smile.gif
smile I always take Dcifr's line

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
He's incorrect, not funny, and folding 77 there is an utterly horrible play. Quit sucking balls and learn the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, maybe, who said anything about folding, poor effort.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Limping in that spot is an extremely weak way to play the tenth best hand in holdem. You're basically conceding your ability to win the pot without a set. The original limper could have 22, 56s, JT, or A3o who knows. There's really no reason to fear a higher pair and surely you would raise with 77 from MP if it was folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop it with your ridiculous advice and come back when you've learned poker from somewhere other than Phil Hellmuth's book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ding Ding Ding.

[NMcNasty]

I plead guilty to the part about loving Phil's book but you are all still wrong /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GoodOL]

OK....unknown table conditions, you limp. If you know there are some super aggressive players behind you, does that change your decision?

Do you also limp with 22-66 with one EP limper?

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
I plead guilty to the part about loving Phil's book

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a big problem.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
OK....unknown table conditions, you limp. If you know there are some super aggressive players behind you, does that change your decision?

Do you also limp with 22-66 with one EP limper?

[/ QUOTE ]

depends on their agression levels...66 would be the cutoff, as 55 i think is a fold in this spot but its close...but 44 is a fold, not as close. 33 and down are mucked.

HOWEVER, if the first limper is just bad, and the people behind you are passive preflop and way way way to agressive postflop and they like to play lots of hands for cheap in position and there's more than 1 of them behind you, then i dont fold any pairs there b/c of the insane implied odds.

but, unfortunately, i just made up a perfect opponent /images/graemlins/smile.gif...ive never seen 1 of those people live, never mind 3 behind me.

Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I plead guilty to the part about loving Phil's book

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a massive problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

[NYplayer]

if you limp after the limper with 77 how low do you go? 22?

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
if you limp after the limper with 77 how low do you go? 22?

[/ QUOTE ]

LINKY (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=3542282&page=0&view=e xpanded&sb=5&o=14&vc=1)

what do you do with 88?

Barron

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
if you limp after the limper with 77 how low do you go? 22?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the rest of the table. I've been limping a little too low lately I think. Probably 44?

[Fortitude]

While we are on the topic of limping, raising, or folding after limpers with smallish pocket pairs how do you guys play these in shorthanded tables.

6 handed, UTG or MP limps, you are CO or button with 22-66 (I presume 77+ is auto raise vs most limpers in this spot)

What's your move and why on an unknown table?

I limp after any limper in this spot with 22-44 and raise 55+. I question my play because this is somewhat proportional to raising 77 in MP1 vs an up front limper.

[CardSharpCook]

This has always been a question spot for me too. I tend to fold 22-77 with just one limper in front in MP on a typical 15 or 20 table. 88/99 are raises for me here. I guess I should limp a little more? I suppose it is time for me to start adding hands back into my repetoire. When we limp 77 here, we are hoping for two more people to enter the pot (preferably limping) or we are hoping for folds. I guess the worst thing would be a raise behind, and only the limper calling.

I mean 77 is the tenth best starting hand in HE.

[Seether]

In 6 handed play Ill raise 5s after just about any limper...if they are open limping in a 6max game they are doing something wrong, punish them for it.