Raising preflop in middle position

Just a small question, a couple of weeks ago somebody pointed out that you should generally never limp in MP when you're first to act; you should raise or fold. Generally speaking, do you all agree to this?

Personally I still consider just limping first in with hands like A8s and JTs when I'm in like MP1 with loose players to my left; should I be raising these perhaps?

[ReadyEddie]

yeah i think everyone agrees.

Ill raise or fold A8s, depends on the table, ill most likely fold JTs.

[@bsolute_luck]

well i'm glad you posted this as i would have to disagree.

MP1 is still considered EP for me, so i'm not in "raise/fold" territory yet- 1 or 2 more seats and i'm there.

loose/passive tables, i'll limp here with suited connectors and suited Aces w/o problem. i begin to debate pocket pairs and folding weak-offsuit cards (KTo and stuff that you generally fold this early anyways).

MP1 is still too far to steal especially at loose/passive tables where it will most likely be multiway and you're getting cold called a lot and OOP for the rest of the hand, but it is unlikely that you will get isolated for open-limping.

aggressive tables is where you fold more. weak/tight tables you open-raise more.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a small question, a couple of weeks ago somebody pointed out that you should generally never limp in MP when you're first to act; you should raise or fold. Generally speaking, do you all agree to this?

Personally I still consider just limping first in with hands like A8s and JTs when I'm in like MP1 with loose players to my left; should I be raising these perhaps?

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the main reasons to raise is that there has to be a decent chance that you will win unopposed. The more losseness there is behind you the less incentive there is to raise these types of hands.

With several loose players behind me I am more inclined to limp both of these hands. However I still would consider raising if I though I would still get a 4-5way pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Just a small question, a couple of weeks ago somebody pointed out that you should generally never limp in MP when you're first to act; you should raise or fold. Generally speaking, do you all agree to this?

Personally I still consider just limping first in with hands like A8s and JTs when I'm in like MP1 with loose players to my left; should I be raising these perhaps?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO I think you generally should be folding these hands from MP1. I think open-limping these type of hands in MP1 is . They require multi-way action and unless the table is very,very loose you have no idea you are going to be getting enough people entering the pot. Even worse you might get isolated by somone raising behind you. The only way I openlimp these is if you have 3 super loose players and loose blinds left to act.

When the table is loose but not that loose, I think raising these types of hands is also bad. If you get only one or two cold callers you are playing a pretty marginal hand OOP.

[newhizzle]

i think you can still limp a hand like JTs in MP1, but it depends on the looseness and aggressiveness of your table, in MP3 you should never be open-limping

Ok, thank you for the answer(s), I guess I'm not that way off then; it of course really depends on the players to the left of me. But I still see different opinions on this so if anyone else has something to add, please do.

[ErrantNight]

In general that's good advice.

If there's some bad loose players to your left, and particularly if you've noticed people love to jump on the limping bandwagon, sure, open limp.

Of course if you're finding yourself against bad loose players that will cold-call too much, particularly if they can be pushed off hands/fold too much/are transparent postflop, then raising becomes more attractive.

against loose calling stations that will cold-call too much and where you're invariably being forced to showdown then raising becomes less ideal. Still a possibility with A8s, however.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
against loose calling stations that will cold-call too much and where you're invariably being forced to showdown then raising becomes less ideal. Still a possibility with A8s, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, giving a choice I would prefer to raise the A8s here as opposed to the JTs.

[BigEndian]

If you follow this rule until you get a better understanding and feel for when to play differently, you can't go too far wrong.

I think this is probably where people come up with this being the general case. No, it doesn't cover all situations and it isn't the most profitable all the time. But it's better than calling not knowing why.

- Jim

[limitholdemshark]

trust me on this one,aggression gets the money!!!!if its ever folded to u in midposition(4 to 6 seats from the bb)always raise or fold except if a maniac's(who's on ur right) been raising preflop on almost every hand and u have poket AA or KK then and only then just call planing to trap .On the flop bet out no matter if you hit or miss the board.

[ QUOTE ]
trust me on this one,aggression gets the money!!!!if its ever folded to u in midposition(4 to 6 seats from the bb)always raise or fold except if a maniac's(who's on ur right) been raising preflop on almost every hand and u have poket AA or KK then and only then just call planing to trap .On the flop bet out no matter if you hit or miss the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the maniac is on my right, hasn't he already folded then? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SackUp]

i open with both of these hands pretty much 100% of the time at 2/4. I'll take these hands HU or 3way. It's all about post flop play.

[limitholdemshark]

in responce to all the oter posts.Of course if u have players who hardly ever fold a raise then i would muck the A8 suited because in lowlimit holdem u cant bluff and they will call u down to the river.the only game i would raise a A8 suited hand is in mid-level to high stakes holdem.as for the J10s hand i myself would muck the hand too.why?true it is one of the best multiway hands in holdem,however its still to weak to enter the pot first.this hand needs the pot odds to be substantial to off set its weak high card power god forbid it goes raise-reraise arround to u.muck both hands first in but certinly raise if u feel like gambling.

[EgoSlasher]

While there are multiple factors in determining your starting hand range I'll mention one. Table conditions should be foremost in your considerations for what hands to play. If your table is tight aggressive limping hands like JTs become harder to play out of position because you're often facing a raise and possibly heads up play on the flop. I don't have any idea of your post flop play but hands like that create difficult flop and turn decisions as you can often be dominated when you hit pairs. Even if you hit a draw you'll often be faced with marginal decisions due to smaller pot odds. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, it simply requires better post flop play. Conversly, if your table is very loose passive you can afford to loosen up considerably from EP and MP if you can expect a lot of limpers to follow.

I almost never open limp from MP. With a hand like A8s I would generally fold unless there is something specifically atypical about the game. Hands like that are difficult to play OOP post flop. With JTs if I decided to play it, I would almost always raise as it will often force better hands to fold. At the same time it would be perfectly fine to fold this hand from MP. If you feel you have an edge on your opponents post flop then raise, if you don't feel you have a significant edge then just fold and wait for something better.


Just my 2 cents

[limitholdemshark]

i ment to say "if the maniac is on ur left"4give me.