Pot Odds

Have a questions regarding pot odds and hopeing for some help.

$1-2Limit game:

1.In the middle position with QTd, two limpers, you call, one raise to the left, call, small blind folds and big blind calls. It comes around and everyone calls. So there's 11.5 bets for $11.50. The flop comes Ac 8d 6d. Betting goes bet, fold, you raise, call, fold, call. You have a flush draw, with 31.5 bets for $31.50 ( if I missed something or am not saying in correctly please let me know what I missed..I'm concerned that I'm not getting the pot odds correct) The turn betting goes first person bets....If I'm on the right track the correct play is to either call or raise because the "pot odds" are 2-31.5 or 1-15.5...one bet to win 15.5... and with 9 outs.. the remaing diamonds... my pot odds are greater than the break even odds of 4.1-1 I'm not concerned with implied odds just yet so.....haven't quite figured that out yet...

2. If the turn card come up a blank regardless of what the betting is, is the correct play to fold because you didn't make the flush on the turn or continue to the river. It seems that because the pot odds would remain the same if everyone checked or became bigger that the thing to do would be to stay in the hand because of the pot odds and the number of cards that can still help....

3. Is there a "magic number" for pot odds? seems like pot odds of 1-4 or better depending on the #of outs is what one is looking for...

A long post and I hope I didn't get to confusing and looking forward to the replies

Thanks

[ QUOTE ]
1.In the middle position with QTd, two limpers, you call, one raise to the left, call, small blind folds and big blind calls. It comes around and everyone calls. So there's 11.5 bets for $11.50.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing there are seven people in the hand, so that's 14 cards missing from the deck, which is 38 cards left. Now subtract the cards from the flop and the one burn card. (Do they burn online? I've never really thought about that.) Anyway, that leaves 34 cards left in the deck. you have nine outs to the flush draw which is 27% on the turn. You are getting 11.25 to 1 which is 8% for the call.

Ok, two limpers -> 2SB, your bet -> 3SB, one raise -> 5SB, one call -> 7SB, SB folds -> 7.5SB, BB calls -> 9.5SB, two limpers call -> 11.5SB, you call -> 12.5SB .

[ QUOTE ]
Betting goes bet, fold, you raise, call, fold, call. You have a flush draw, with 31.5 bets for $31.50

[/ QUOTE ]
one bet -> 13.5SB, you raise -> 15.5SB, one call -> 17.5SB, one call -> 18.5SB or 9.25BB .

On 4th street one person bets making the pot odds to you 10.25BB. Now you have to call 1BB so you are getting 10.25 to 1.

You're getting great odds here to call or raise. In addition, the two players after you have shown the willingness to cold call or over call as well. I would be more inclined to call to keep them in the game. It is likely that someone here has the Ad and was waiting on the turn to see if he hit 2pr or had a shot at a four flush on the board.

The other scenario that is possible is that someone in late position might be on Axd, in which case you're building a great pot for them if the river comes up with the diamond you're hoping for. Given the scenario you've created, it is highly plausible that a player in late position looked at A9d or A5d and thought he might be getting good enough odds to make a call preflop and on the flop. Preflop maybe not, but on the flop, he definitely is.

I've never read of anyone subtracting the cards from the deck that were burned. That's an interesting concept in getting your odds. Why would you do that?

i think you can not subtract opponent/burned cards simply because you dont know what they are holding.

[D.H.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing there are seven people in the hand, so that's 14 cards missing from the deck, which is 38 cards left. Now subtract the cards from the flop and the one burn card. (Do they burn online? I've never really thought about that.) Anyway, that leaves 34 cards left in the deck.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're way off here man. You want to compare your outs to the number of unknown cards. This includes the cards of your opponents and the ones left in the deck (and the burn card if there is one... this doesn't make a difference to your odds of course).

I don't have the time to read through the post and make the correct calculations, but I'm sure someone else will. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Onaflag]

[ QUOTE ]
Have a questions regarding pot odds and hopeing for some help.

$1-2Limit game:

1.In the middle position with QTd, two limpers, you call, one raise to the left, call, small blind folds and big blind calls. It comes around and everyone calls. So there's 11.5 bets for $11.50. The flop comes Ac 8d 6d. Betting goes bet, fold, you raise, call, fold, call. You have a flush draw, with 31.5 bets for $31.50 ( if I missed something or am not saying in correctly please let me know what I missed..I'm concerned that I'm not getting the pot odds correct) The turn betting goes first person bets....If I'm on the right track the correct play is to either call or raise because the "pot odds" are 2-31.5 or 1-15.5...one bet to win 15.5... and with 9 outs.. the remaing diamonds... my pot odds are greater than the break even odds of 4.1-1 I'm not concerned with implied odds just yet so.....haven't quite figured that out yet...

2. If the turn card come up a blank regardless of what the betting is, is the correct play to fold because you didn't make the flush on the turn or continue to the river. It seems that because the pot odds would remain the same if everyone checked or became bigger that the thing to do would be to stay in the hand because of the pot odds and the number of cards that can still help....

3. Is there a "magic number" for pot odds? seems like pot odds of 1-4 or better depending on the #of outs is what one is looking for...

A long post and I hope I didn't get to confusing and looking forward to the replies

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

1) You are very confused.
2) So are most of the replies above.

I lost patience counting the number of bets, but they are off on the flop. Essentially, you flopped a flush draw.

Your raise on the flop was good. You figure to make your hand once every 3 tries when you see both the turn and the river and once every 5 tries if you're just intending to see the next card whether its the turn or the river.

Did that make sense? Once every three tries is 2:1 or 2 to 1 and once every 5 tries is 4:1 or 4 to 1.

We mostly look at pot odds on the NEXT card to come. In the case of your flush draw, again, you're a 4:1 shot to make it. Is the pot offering you 4:1? Yes. You would be correct to call the flop. You chose to raise. Good. Get some money into the pot.

If you miss on the turn card, again count the pot in terms of big bets this time. Is it still offering you 4:1. Probably.

Odds are calculated based on UNSEEN cards. You haven't seen your opponents cards so they count, too. You have 2. The flop has 3. That's 5 cards you've seen and 47 you haven't.

There are 13 flush cards, right? You have 2 of them and 2 are on the board, right? 13 minus 4 is 9. You have 9 outs. 9 out of 47 cards can help you. That's where the 4:1 comes from. 47 divided by 9 is about 5.2. Expressed in odds, 5.2 is 4.2:1.

When the turn comes out, that's now 46 cards you haven't seen and your odds increase very very slightly to 4.1:1.

This all make sense?

One last thing, there is a Beginner's Forum below. Questions like this will get better responses there. I can't believe a couple of the replies you got here.

Onaflag...........

MP with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif:

two limpers = 2SB, you call = 1SB, one raise = 2SB, one call = 2SB, sb fold and bb call = 2.5SB, you and the limpers call = 3SB
TOTAL = 2+1+2+2+2.5+3 = 12.5 SB

FLOP = A/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

There is a bet = 1SB, a fold, your raise = 2SB, a call = 2SB, fold, and a call of the guy who bet = 1SB

TOTAL = 12.5+1+2+2+1 = 18.5 SB or 8.75 BB

(note that there was six people in the pot and you only described the action of 5 of them)

TURN = BLANK(?)

ONE BET 1BB OR 2SB

The pot odds now(in BB) are 9.75 - 1 for a call, and 4.9 - 1 for a raise.
Your odds to hit your flush are 4.1 - 1.

* I'm new to poker so i can be wrong *

you most definately can NOT count out other players cards. they are just as likely to hold you flush cards as the remaining deck is. you subtract the cards in your hand, the cards on the board, and any cards that have been exposed. not dead hands, ever.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing there are seven people in the hand, so that's 14 cards missing from the deck, which is 38 cards left. Now subtract the cards from the flop and the one burn card. (Do they burn online? I've never really thought about that.) Anyway, that leaves 34 cards left in the deck. you have nine outs to the flush draw which is 27% on the turn. You are getting 11.25 to 1 which is 8% for the call.


[/ QUOTE ]

Somehow during the cutting and pasting of my first post I left this quote in when I acutally didn't mean to. After I thought about it, I wasn't sure so I thought I removed it from my post, so sorry about the confusion. On the other hand I'm kind of glad that I did include it because I've been miscalculating my implied odds. So thanks to all. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I didn't think so.