20/40 AA vs 2 tags

[DrGutshot]

Hope this doesn't anger anyone I'm posting names, CO is 'kazofa' a 25/14 taggish, haven't seen anything bad player. SB is 'spitbet', a 20/40 regular I've seen all over, probably a 2'er. I have been running quite well and probably am seen as a bit overaggressive.

about 6 handed, folds to me in the hijack and I raise A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, kazofa quickly 3bets, button folds, spitbet quickly caps, bb folds, I call, kazofa calls.

Flop is K /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
spitbet bets, what's my action?

-DrG

[baronzeus]

i'd call down


edit: HU later?

[joker122]

just raise. the pot is big.

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just raise. the pot is big.

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villain behind hero is clearly drawing to 2 outs, no?

i also vote for calling down.

[baronzeus]

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i'd call down


edit: HU later?

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i have no idea if this is rigth btw, it's just what i do...just go for a ton of overcalls from QQ-TT etc...

[DrGutshot]

did you get my PM I sent ~4 days ago? haven't gotten a response yet :O

I'd be up for HU tomorrow (thurs) almost all day >3pm, send me a pm again.

-DrG

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
did you get my PM I sent ~4 days ago? haven't gotten a response yet :O

I'd be up for HU tomorrow (thurs) almost all day >3pm, send me a pm again.

-DrG

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[censored] my bad /images/graemlins/frown.gif

i will play any time...send me an AIM (same SN as here) and we will play

[joker122]

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just raise. the pot is big.

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villain behind hero is clearly drawing to 2 outs, no?

i also vote for calling down.

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why are you ruling out a hand like KQs or KJs for kazofa?

[baronzeus]

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just raise. the pot is big.

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villain behind hero is clearly drawing to 2 outs, no?

i also vote for calling down.

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why are you ruling out a hand like KQs or KJs for kazofa?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not at all ruling those out...but i really think we might get a ton of action on the flop anyhow and we REALLY want to see a showdown here...

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
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just raise. the pot is big.

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villain behind hero is clearly drawing to 2 outs, no?

i also vote for calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you ruling out a hand like KQs or KJs for kazofa?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not at all ruling those out...but i really think we might get a ton of action on the flop anyhow and we REALLY want to see a showdown here...

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bump because im curious...this is a good hand to discuss cuz its not easy against two tags.

[DrGutshot]

I think one thing that needs to be considered more is what they will put me on if I raise, and what will they put me on if I call. I don't just mean basic hand reading, but the whole they know that I know that they know levels of thinking range.

Also, keep in mind if I flatcall, kazofa is getting, what, 14:1? Do I have him drawing to runners often enough here to flatcall? What will he call with getting 7:1 if I raise?

-DrG

[cartman]

I definitely raise. The pot is already big and you likely have the best hand although it is very vulnerable.

Cartman

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why are you ruling out a hand like KQs or KJs for kazofa?

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yeah, you're right.

not sure whether that changes my answer here or not. you can't really expect him to go anywhere with tpgk, regardless of the action but you don't want to let him draw cheaply if you're ahead. i think you're right in that raising the flop is the best play. we're ahead too often here.

[krishanleong]

raise. I think it's easy. I think a 2 outer will fold but letting him draw is bad. I think you will get a lot of action from some hands you beat. I can't see not putting in a raise at some point. Calling down with an overpair without action indicating you are screwed is bad.

Krishan

[DrGutshot]

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raise. I think it's easy. I think a 2 outer will fold but letting him draw is bad. I think you will get a lot of action from some hands you beat. I can't see not putting in a raise at some point. Calling down with an overpair without action indicating you are screwed is bad.

Krishan

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This is pretty much exactly my reasoning for when I did in fact raise - with the additional possibility of getting overplayed action from something like QQ/JJ if they thought that I would not raise here with AK/AA waiting for bigger streets. In addition, they may be tied to the pot if I play fast on the flop, while they may let it go on the turn to a raise.

In this case though, kazofa quickly folded, as did spitbet - oh well. I suspect I'm not getting much action from hands as weak as theirs in this spot regardless.

-DrG

[baronzeus]

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raise. I think it's easy. I think a 2 outer will fold but letting him draw is bad. I think you will get a lot of action from some hands you beat. I can't see not putting in a raise at some point. Calling down with an overpair without action indicating you are screwed is bad.

Krishan

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wouldnt raising the turn be way better then?

[Jeff W]

I'd call on the flop and if kazofa folds, I'd call the turn and raise the river vs. spitbet.

If Kazofa stays in the hand I'd raise any turn.

I don't know why we want kazofa to fold a 2-outer, he's not getting adequate odds to call. Also, I think letting spitbet keep the lead and stay in the hand is going to win more money than it loses you when he draws out.

Interesting hand. Do you mind PMing me your Party nickname? I'll reciprocate, of course. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[krishanleong]

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I don't know why we want kazofa to fold a 2-outer, he's not getting adequate odds to call.

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I'd say for sure he is.

Edit: Well it looks like 15-1. I imagine he'll make up 3BB if he hits a set against us.

Krishan

[Jeff W]

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I'd say for sure he is [getting adequate odds to call].


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Yeah, you're right actually. He should be able to make 3.25 BB on the later streets if you give him 43:2 odds instead of 45:2 which requires 4.25(which I used when I first thought through the calculation).

[baronzeus]

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I'd say for sure he is [getting adequate odds to call].


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Yeah, you're right actually. He should be able to make 3.25 BB on the later streets if you give him 43:2 odds instead of 45:2 which requires 4.25(which I used when I first thought through the calculation).

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anyone know the hand posted a few weeks ago that some (top level) player played and basically went for overcalls on every street? that hand in combination to the fact that we are really way far ahead or drawing nearly dead makes me just want to call down...

if i have to raise i raise the turn no?