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View Full Version : TP blah kicker. Vs aggression from unknown.

ReadyEddie
09-28-2005, 05:07 PM
No reads on SB
BB is a total moron.

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6.00 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls or raises?

We'll do it play along style cause the turn is pretty interesting.

Is this a standard WA/WB?
Redd
09-28-2005, 05:18 PM
Is this a little frisky pf? I don't think I'd open with this in MP3 against a moran and an unknown.

The way it went down, I'd value-raise the flop.

BTW, I wouldn't call this a WA/WB situation because:
1) You're never really WA here because of the nature of the board,
2) you're ahead more often than behind here because SB
would typically 3-bet most better aces from SB,
3) The third guy adds several variables to the hand,
4) You have position.
sean c
09-28-2005, 05:20 PM
I like calling with the BB still in the hand. I want to see the turn card and the action on the turn before I decide how much I like my hand. With position I think it's the best way to go.
crunchy1
09-28-2005, 05:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is this a little frisky pf? I don't think I'd open with this in MP3 against a moran and an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think what's really key to making a judgement about the PFR is what reads we have on the CO and Button. Against the typical Party 2/4 player I think this is fine. I'm raising lighter than this against some opponents and tossing this against others.
ReadyEddie
09-28-2005, 08:54 PM
Well I called cause i figured i wanted to see what the turn was and didnt think it was worth raising for value with such a vulnerable hand.

Hero calls flop.

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
SB bets, BB calls, Hero Raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero ?
ReadyEddie
09-29-2005, 10:45 AM
Shamelss bump cause i want to know if i should cap this turn or not
Nick C
09-29-2005, 10:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Well I called cause i figured i wanted to see what the turn was and didnt think it was worth raising for value with such a vulnerable hand.

Hero calls flop.

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
SB bets, BB calls, Hero Raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just call.

I think SB probably has two pair or better.

If so, all you're beating is QJ (and the unlikely Q8/J8).
Redd
09-29-2005, 11:05 AM
So one would be acting in error to raise the flop for value, then? You don't think a 'typical' SB would cool-call any weak aces?
Nick C
09-29-2005, 11:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So one would be acting in error to raise the flop for value, then? You don't think a 'typical' SB would cool-call any weak aces?

[/ QUOTE ]

He might.

It's the turn 3-bet (versus a PFR who called the flop and then popped the turn) that makes me think SB's hand is probably pretty good.
Redd
09-29-2005, 11:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It's the turn 3-bet (versus a PFR who called the flop and then popped the turn) that makes me think SB's hand is probably pretty good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not having seen the turn 3-bet happen yet, you would still call the flop bet though?
Nick C
09-29-2005, 11:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's the turn 3-bet (versus a PFR who called the flop and then popped the turn) that makes me think SB's hand is probably pretty good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not having seen the turn 3-bet happen yet, you would still call the flop bet though?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was saying it was the turn 3-bet that I would call.

On the flop, I'm not sure what I like best. I think I'm leaning toward raising, though -- mainly to charge the BB extra for staying in. (If we're ahead of SB's range, I doubt it's by much all that much. For instance, we'll end up chopping with worse aces a good portion of the time.)
ReadyEddie
09-29-2005, 03:50 PM
On the flop, why are we ahead of SB? Our hand is very vulnerable and not that strong. SB bet into the PFR on a board that hits most of the typical calling range for an unknown.
Nick C
09-29-2005, 08:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, why are we ahead of SB? Our hand is very vulnerable and not that strong. SB bet into the PFR on a board that hits most of the typical calling range for an unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played 2/4 in awhile, and I'm not really sure how we fare against SB's likely range when he leads the flop.

Anyway, though, wouldn't some players try to do something tricky if they flopped aces up or a straight? Not everyone slowplays their big hands, but some players do, so that's part of my thinking on the flop.

But, yeah, I think SB has something. And worse aces aren't really in such bad shape against us, and if we're outkicked or up against AJ, Button's hand may be stepping on some of our chopping outs.

Still, we're probably ahead of Button, and his presence kind of makes me want to raise, since we could also have a better ace than SB. (Or maybe SB is even betting something like KQ, with a pair and a gutshot.)

Anyway, though, I might just call the flop bet. That was my initial thought, when I first opened the thread.

I've thought about it more since then, and mostly what I've decided is that I don't know what's best on the flop.